Games that work well in YDL on PS3

YDL running on the Sony Playstation 3

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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby ppietro » 22 Oct 2008, 07:05

easytec wrote:FSX and Crysis work via Mono 2.0.
Wii emulator works kind of fast too, with support of the WiiMote via Mono 2.0.
So PS3 can be an all in one Console?


I think you're confusing a couple of things here. FSX & Crysis are probably running on an x86 Linux using x86 Mono 2.0 to an accelerated 3D video card. The PS3 has *none* of these. It's a PowerPC processor (Cell/B.E.) Linux, with a hypervisor that restricts graphics to framebuffer, non 3D accelerated, video. Just because there's a PowerPC version of Mono 2.0 doesn't mean that the games can use it directly - they're still in x86 code. You'd have to have some kind of dynamic recompilation to get them to use Power PC mono 2.0 - or you'd have to emulate the x86 and the x86 mono simultaneously. Even if you got that running, there'd still be no 3D graphics. QEMU certainly does not have the power to do this.

It might be easier to emulate the Wii - since they're both PowerPC based - but you'd still run into the "non 3D accelerated video problem". You wouldn't need mono for that at all - you'd just emulate the Wii directly. Unless you're talking about an x86 Wii emulator - in which case, you're back to the issues raised in my previous paragraph.

My answer to your question is: No - the PS3 cannot be an all in one console. :D

easytec wrote:Do I have to go back and forth into the System Setting menu all the time I switch from OtherOS to GameOS???
I just can't work out how to boot load...


Yes - that's how that works.

The table is this:

GameOS always boots GameOS by default
OtherOS always boots OtherOS by default
GameOS --> System Setting Menu --> OtherOS
OtherOS --> ps3-boot-gameos --> GameOS

Cheers,
Paul
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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby easytec » 22 Oct 2008, 14:14

Well I got it running using VMWare Player PPC Linux Edition as well, may be its because I have a premium, edited PS3 console, may be they put a compatibility video card in it, I don't know, all I can tell you is that my PS3 is not like a regular PS3, I had a mod-chip installed, that's all, I heard the mod-chip bypasses the modulator hypervisor that allows Linux to run loosely in PowerPC.
Another question, could I get Mac OS X to actually run on the PS3, or just via VMWare Player?
Thanks.
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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby ppietro » 22 Oct 2008, 21:35

easytec wrote:Well I got it running using VMWare Player PPC Linux Edition as well, may be its because I have a premium, edited PS3 console, may be they put a compatibility video card in it, I don't know, all I can tell you is that my PS3 is not like a regular PS3, I had a mod-chip installed, that's all, I heard the mod-chip bypasses the modulator hypervisor that allows Linux to run loosely in PowerPC.
Another question, could I get Mac OS X to actually run on the PS3, or just via VMWare Player?
Thanks.


Well - the normal answer is no, you couldn't get Mac OS X to actually run on the PS3. But - since your PS3 is mod-chipped - and ours aren't - I have no idea.

BTW - Mod chips for the PS3 are extremely rare, if they exist at all. There is one mod chip available that I know of, but all it seems to do is load custom firmware into the PS3 ROMs - someone would have to decode the firmware to be able to figure out how to do what you're saying. Are you sure you didn't buy a developer's console, perchance? Those look like PS3s, but have different firmware.

Either way - they wouldn't put a compatibility video card in it - there's no slots in a PS3 to do that. You'd be using the same RSX as all the others - it's a standard nVidia part. If you have a PS3 with slots, it's not a PS3. It might be a developer's console, but that's a different machine.

Still - it's worth trying VMWare player - I'll give that a shot when I get home and load XP on it.

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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby ppietro » 23 Oct 2008, 17:22

ppietro wrote:Still - it's worth trying VMWare player - I'll give that a shot when I get home and load XP on it.


Hmmm - it seems that I can't find a version of VMWare player for PPC Linux. There was mention of vmware as a kernel mode driver in older versions of Ubuntu for PowerPC, but the projects seem pretty dead now.

Also - it appears that VMWare Player is a virtualizer, not an emulator. In other words - it doesn't provide cross platform translation - x86 to ppc - it just creates another instance of your current processor.

I'll keep poking around to see if I can find a download, but at this time it doesn't seem like a usable alternative for PS3.

EDIT: I just read your other post about your setup here:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4094&p=20112#p20112
I'll try configuring like that. More soon.

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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby ppietro » 23 Oct 2008, 23:45

ppietro wrote:EDIT: I just read your other post about your setup here:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4094&p=20112#p20112
I'll try configuring like that. More soon.


Okay - so let's go thru your setup a little bit:

easytec wrote:I use the Windows file system connection, using Linux/Windows within YDL, to another computer, with a bigger hard drive.


Interesting. Let's go thru how you do this.

I actually run Vista, and here's how it is done:
I run another, small Linux within QEMU.


So - on the PS3, you're running QEMU emulating x86 and loading a small Linux. I'm with you so far. :)

I boot Windows Vista from another machine (VMWare Server), connect to it via VMWare Player for Linux.


Okay - so you have VMWare Server, and a Vista image. You start a VMWare Server image of Vista. Got it.

Here's where I have some questions. VMWare Player for Linux doesn't connect to VMWare Server - instead it runs the same files that VMWare server does. (Kinda like Virtual PC vs. Virtual Server - they're both different ways of running VHDs).

I have a feeling you might be running VMWare Remote Console instead. That would run in your x86 Linux under QEMU and connect to your Vista instance running on your Virtual server box.

That way I don't waste the 10 GB provided by the PlayStation3, I then use the resources (hard drive, etc) on the server, and use the PS3's hardware to run the Windows Vista from within.


Actually - the computer running VMWare Server is running Vista. The PS3, in your model, is the equivalent of a "dumb terminal". You're not using the PS3's GPU - called the RSX - at all. The PS3 is running in pure framebuffer mode. Also - you're not running emulation on the PS3 - you're running some sort of remote console. What this means is that the VMWare Server is sending graphics primitives - pre-3D rendered - to the PS3, which is framebuffer displaying them.

It's very fast, but Vista gets confused about the drivers sometimes, but it never crashes, its a little unstable, but it works ok, I can actually run DX 10 games believe it or not, using the GPU.


Except - you're not running the DX 10 games on the PS3's GPU - you're running them on Vista on the VMWare Server. It's a clever way of running games - but you're not really running them on the PS3 natively. What we're discussing in this thread is pure emulation - using the Cell to actually emulate other processors. For the most part, getting the ppc to emulate an x86 is quite slow.

What we're talking about would be like running Vista directly in QEMU on the PS3. If you tried loading Crysis in this "QEMU Vista", I doubt it would work. From what I can tell, Vista running on QEMU on the PS3 takes 40 minutes to boot. I have a feeling that Crysis would be unplayable in this case. :)

Cheers,
Paul

P.S. Of course, the other alternative is that you're not running VMWare at all - you're actually running VNC. VNC would behave exactly as you describe and be a lot easier to set up. VNC is another "remote protocol" with the same issues I outlined above - i.e. the processing is done on the VNC Server box, not the PS3, which acts like a dumb terminal. In addition - there's a native PS3 VNC Client. But - since you mention VMWare, I'll assume that's what you're using. :D
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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby billb » 24 Oct 2008, 01:33

I might try out StreamMyGame tomorrow ... I don't know if it has always been like this, but it looks like they're moving towards a subscription based service. There's still a "free" service, but:

Please Note : Our Premium and Unlimited subscription service provides higher resolutions, no overlays or adverts and privileged tech support.
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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby Darkseider » 14 Nov 2008, 18:41

Question. I am new to Linux on the PS3 but no stranger to linux. I notice that all of these emulators are being installed via Yum as precompiled binaries. What if these were to be built from source using optimizations for the Cell? I noticed a thread about Cell Optimized ffmpeg using different compile tme switches and wonder if this would apply to all of the pre-made PPC stuff? Granted it would take you a bit longer to play Super Mario World or DKC when building from source but wouldn't it be worthwhile to see if there is a performance gain?
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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby mihaiolimpiu » 14 Nov 2008, 19:32

interesting post above running games and all, not that i'm interested in that anymore.. maybe i'll set it up for the upcoming starcraft 2 but nothing else on PC makes me go back to gaming in a armchair.. :(

Still it's an interesting point of view and if someone clever enough to actually write a guide for the rest of us would be a real success story (I have remote DVR program to that I couldn't find a linux alternative to use on PS3 - this is mostly for what I'll use that).
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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby billb » 14 Nov 2008, 20:59

Darkseider wrote:Question. I am new to Linux on the PS3 but no stranger to linux. I notice that all of these emulators are being installed via Yum as precompiled binaries. What if these were to be built from source using optimizations for the Cell? I noticed a thread about Cell Optimized ffmpeg using different compile tme switches and wonder if this would apply to all of the pre-made PPC stuff? Granted it would take you a bit longer to play Super Mario World or DKC when building from source but wouldn't it be worthwhile to see if there is a performance gain?


The ones I have in my repo are all compiled on a PS3 and use any optimizations that I'm aware of, but at least with gcc 4.1 there isn't much available in terms of optimizing for the Cell. The archopts I'm using for sdlmame & sdlmess may give a slight performance increase, and also for Quake II and Descent II it seems that asynchronous blitting helps a little on the frame rates. Modifying/creating code to make use of the Cell's SPEs is no trivial thing, so basically I'm just trying to get the best performance possible out of the two-way multi-threaded PPE. Newer versions of gcc may offer a Cell-optimized target, but that still won't make use of the SPEs.

The best increase in speed I've found is to use the SPE scaler tool -- running the games at a lower resolution with large black border, then zooming in on that by 2, 3 or 4x to fill the screen. Since an SPE is handling the scaling instead of the PPE, the games run at nearly the same speed they do in their native resolution, but fill the screen (or come close to it).

Usage of the scaler tool is described here:
http://pleasantfiction.ipower.com/bodeg ... f=18&t=100
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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby Darkseider » 14 Nov 2008, 21:09

"...Modifying/creating code to make use of the Cell's SPEs is no trivial thing,"

What ya waiting for? Get on it! :wink: Just messin' with ya, I have been reading up on using the SPEs and looking at some sample code and it seems to be a bit of a pain in the arse. I am sure that over time and more eyes looking at it things will improve. Until then it's just hack away and see what the results are and post about them.
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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby billb » 14 Nov 2008, 21:27

Darkseider wrote:"...Modifying/creating code to make use of the Cell's SPEs is no trivial thing,"

What ya waiting for? Get on it! :wink: Just messin' with ya, I have been reading up on using the SPEs and looking at some sample code and it seems to be a bit of a pain in the arse. I am sure that over time and more eyes looking at it things will improve. Until then it's just hack away and see what the results are and post about them.


I've read quite a bit about it, but the problem for me is I haven't done much programming at all. I don't know that I'll ever take the time to learn C/C++ well enough to do anything useful with it. Python is much easier for me, but I'm just getting started with that, too.

Hopefully the development tools and libraries will improve over time to make the process easier, as you suggest. Already there are a couple of things for Python:

CorePy (not quite ready for prime-time, I think)
http://www.corepy.org/

Python PS3 (uses SPEs for graphics)
http://python-ps3.sourceforge.net/

And just the regular Python + Pygame already runs well enough on the PS3 without any modifications. It's certainly fast enough to handle some 2D games. Many examples of what can be done with Pygame can be found here:

http://www.pygame.org/tags/pygame
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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby billb » 19 Nov 2008, 12:28

Here's a fun game that runs well and is very different from the norm -- numptyphysics

http://numptyphysics.garage.maemo.org/

Basically you draw on the level screen and whatever you draw becomes an object with physics applied to it, and you try "to get the little red thing to the little yellow thing."

And once you get through all the included levels there are user submitted levels here:
http://numptyphysics.garage.maemo.org/levels/

To play those levels you just click on the one you want to play and Open With numptyphysics

Or create your own levels ... I haven't tried that yet, though ... I'm still not done with the included levels! :mrgreen:

You can install it from my repo here (rebuilt from srpm package found on EPEL):
http://pleasantfiction.ipower.com/ps3li ... group.html

It will also install directly from EPEL's PPC rpm repo with no problems.

Just use yum install numptyphysics if you're using either repo, or it might install OK by opening the RPM directly from your browser.
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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby CronoCloud » 27 Jan 2009, 07:29

I'll make Paul happy with a couple of Java games

Colossus is a Java clone of an old Avalon Hill tabletop game called Titan that I've played a couple of times with a friend. Works pretty well with IBM Java 6.

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/

MegaMek is a Java implementation of the Classic Battletech tabletop game. Also seems to work well with IBM Java 6. Played a couple of games with a bot with a 3025 Lyran Wolfhound vs a 3025 Kurita Panther. Lost one, won one.

http://megamek.sourceforge.net/idx.php?pg=main

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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby billb » 09 Feb 2009, 16:00

Robin Hood - The Legend of Sherwood is a commercial game available for PPC Linux and appears to run well on the PS3 with YDL 6.1. :mrgreen:

http://blogs.ydl.net/billb/2009/02/09/a ... cial-game/

See more info on it here:

http://www.rune-soft.com/product.php?product_id=20
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Re: Games that work well in YDL on PS3

Postby billb » 14 Mar 2009, 23:01

openmortal -- a parody of Mortal Kombat

http://openmortal.sourceforge.net/

This one has been around for a while but development seems to have stalled. Still, it's pretty good (and funny). To compile on YDL 6.1 I had to make one minor change to the source to avoid an error -- here's a patch:

Code: Select all
openmortal-0.7-onlinechat.patch

Code: Select all
--- openmortal-0.7/src/OnlineChat.cpp.orig      2009-03-14 00:01:20.000000000 -0
400
+++ openmortal-0.7/src/OnlineChat.cpp   2009-03-14 00:01:44.000000000 -0400
@@ -56,7 +56,7 @@
 class CChallengeMenu: public Menu
 {
 public:
-       CChallengeMenu::CChallengeMenu( std::string a_sChallenger )
+       CChallengeMenu( std::string a_sChallenger )
        : Menu( "You have been challenged!" ),
        m_sChallenger( a_sChallenger )
        {


I've already built an RPM for it and added it to the ps3bodega repo so just yum install openmortal if you're using my repo (it will be added to your Applications->Games menu).

I suppose if you were really dedicated you could add yourself as one of the characters ... :P

http://openmortal.sourceforge.net/Character_HOWTO.html

Haven't got online play working -- not even sure if server is still up. And I guess there's no AI code yet, so it's only two-player and uses the keyboard.
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