PS3 Hacked

YDL running on the Sony Playstation 3

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PS3 Hacked

Postby CoBrA2168 » 23 Jan 2010, 17:40

Here:

http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/01/h ... eohot.html

Could this lead to a more supportive version of Linux on the PS3? Like full access? Meaning...better emulators and applications?!?
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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby ppietro » 23 Jan 2010, 19:11

CoBrA2168 wrote:Here:

http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/01/h ... eohot.html

Could this lead to a more supportive version of Linux on the PS3? Like full access? Meaning...better emulators and applications?!?


It's way too early to tell, I think. All I can see is that he's bypassed the hypervisor and is talking on one of the inner busses via a hardware FPGA solution. Unless there's a way to translate that into real world access - for ordinary folks - that's more academic than useful, IMHO.

I'm not saying that it's not cool, mind you. I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude towards this - that's all.

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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby CoBrA2168 » 24 Jan 2010, 14:28

ppietro wrote:
CoBrA2168 wrote:Here:

http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/01/h ... eohot.html

Could this lead to a more supportive version of Linux on the PS3? Like full access? Meaning...better emulators and applications?!?


It's way too early to tell, I think. All I can see is that he's bypassed the hypervisor and is talking on one of the inner busses via a hardware FPGA solution. Unless there's a way to translate that into real world access - for ordinary folks - that's more academic than useful, IMHO.

I'm not saying that it's not cool, mind you. I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude towards this - that's all.

Cheers,
Paul

Some more work this guy has done just in the past few hours:

http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/01/i ... names.html

I think eventually (maybe a year or more, but...) we will see a hack to allow full access.
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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby Efaustus9 » 24 Jan 2010, 19:41

So do you think this has anything to do with the removal of other os. While geohot has had a ps3 for a year and a half he only started his efforts after the removal of other os. So about two years after this conference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtDTNnEvlf8 the ps3 has been supposedly compromised.
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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby oeboeroe » 24 Jan 2010, 19:59

Efaustus9 wrote:So do you think this has anything to do with the removal of other os.


Good question.

But like css and all it's the sport that counts. At least I think so.

Do you think he is the first one or just the first one to go public?

His blog reads like he is very confident with his skills and has been around for a long time.

I am not that good at reading between the lines, but is he telling us that the Iphone hack provided him with the skills for this one. IS there a technical comparison between the two system or is his approach to both the reason for his success... maybe psp.. There can't be that much standards around...

I get the feeling he is telling people to check for a key underneath the doormat before forcing the window... :P
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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby ppietro » 24 Jan 2010, 20:30

Efaustus9 wrote:So do you think this has anything to do with the removal of other os. While geohot has had a ps3 for a year and a half he only started his efforts after the removal of other os. So about two years after this conference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtDTNnEvlf8 the ps3 has been supposedly compromised.


In my opinion: Oh yeah - definitely. Even if geohot doesn't articulate it that way - I'm sure that was part of the allure. From reading about him on Wikipedia, it seems he was part of the iPhone unlock team. Smart guy - for sure.

See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz

We'd discussed that here in the forums when the news about the removal of the OtherOS first hit. (I can't find the exact post right now - I'll update later) I think we figured that it was just a matter of time until the console was hacked. Remove the OtherOS, and you attract the folks who want to run Linux on it that would take the time to unlock the system, per the first 5 minutes of that YouTube video.

Another good question about this hardware/software hack is - "Which hardware did he hack?" If he hacked the phat, will the same trick work on the revised slim motherboard? Or - is the hack part of the OtherOS support itself? If so, did removal of OtherOS remove his attack vector?

Can anyone tell from the exploded photo of the PS3 he posted?

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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby oeboeroe » 24 Jan 2010, 21:19

ppietro wrote:Another good question about this hardware/software hack is - "Which hardware did he hack?" If he hacked the phat, will the same trick work on the revised slim motherboard? Or - is the hack part of the OtherOS support itself? If so, did removal of OtherOS remove his attack vector?

Can anyone tell from the exploded photo of the PS3 he posted?

Cheers,
Paul


"I now have dumps of LV0 and LV1. I've also dumped the NAND"

He just dumped it's brains..


to me it looks like it is the os/vizor itself, the "other os vizor" hack basically went the same.. "peek" somewhere and decern function from fiction. it is my understanding that this way the rgx was used in the beginning.

the dumps seem pretty professional (aka seem like real enough functionnames). The question for me is... how did he get such early access... did he dump something others did not tell about..or did he dump after he tricked the <doormat> to reveal it's secrets.

http://pastie.org/782458

seems pretty legit.

P.S.
what is rambus... some stange pattent somewhere.. did sony use that ?
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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby ppietro » 24 Jan 2010, 21:29

oeboeroe wrote:what is rambus... some stange pattent somewhere.. did sony use that ?


RAMBUS is a company and a memory type. They're an alternative to the DDR memory Intel has been using. Sony has been using them to provide main memory since the PS2. In the PS3 they provide 256 Megs of system memory, and IIRC, the FlexIO controller that interfaces it to the Cell.

See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambus

and here for PS3 usage:
http://tinyurl.com/y9drssn

Currently - they're also involved in a big lawsuit with nVidia over patent infringement:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-10439960-260.html

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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby billb » 24 Jan 2010, 21:29

ppietro wrote:Can anyone tell from the exploded photo of the PS3 he posted?


Just looking at the blu-ray drive, that's definitely not a PS3 Slim.
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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby oeboeroe » 24 Jan 2010, 21:37

slim or fat it's all about the code now..

I can't really see there to be much difference between 3.15 slim or fat.. just less software features..

I am still pondering why sony dropped the "other os" feature in the first place, see other thread... I just don't have the money to break both open yet.. my hunch is that some hwfeature set disappeared. This is all fiction, not facts.

And even if the keys are in hw, it's just a matter of time and wits before the dump is at the correct time and read from the correct location.. but all in all it depends on how far he got the os to boot.. did it actually access that part yet.. I don't know.. in theory.. he can do a coldboot attack (unaltered code?) and dump it again using his method.. That is if the RAM contains the keys, which I hope it does not..

Because it is "fun" to play free games some people in a room sweated years for to complete, I buy my games to support such developers and show them my appreciation of the fact that I was entertained... (are you not entertained?)

As Paul reminded me... rambus...
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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby ppietro » 24 Jan 2010, 21:46

oeboeroe wrote:slim or fat it's all about the code now..

I can't really see there to be much difference between 3.15 slim or fat.. just less software features..


Not really. According to Sony, the slim has a different motherboard, and a different internal firmware layout. They simplified the design quite a bit. They claimed that the time it would take to port the OtherOS hypervisor layer to the new architecture wasn't worth the effort.

Don't forget - the games work under a hypervisor layer too. Changes in hardware system architecture would still work via hypervisor abstraction.

That isn't to say they're not similar - but it might be enough where a hack that works on one console won't work on the other without significant modification.

Until Geohot posts his method we won't know for sure - his hack may or may not depend on a specific architecture spot in the phat.

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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby oeboeroe » 24 Jan 2010, 21:54

ppietro wrote:
oeboeroe wrote:slim or fat it's all about the code now..

I can't really see there to be much difference between 3.15 slim or fat.. just less software features..


Not really. According to Sony, the slim has a different motherboard, and a different internal firmware layout. They simplified the design quite a bit. They claimed that the time it would take to port the OtherOS hypervisor layer to the new architecture wasn't worth the effort.


Intresting, I am not that familiar with the ps3 software internals.. however I have seen a lot of FOSS os'es/vizors implementing such feature sets.

All I can say is, what is kboot/yaboot.. kexec?

I was actually commenting on billb's argument that the bd is not slim.. (hw wise slim and fat are miles apart.. not just size I gather).
I am gonna google/tube some movies about both internals maybe see if there's a few decent ones out there..

ppietro wrote:Don't forget - the games work under a hypervisor layer too. Changes in hardware system architecture would still work via hypervisor abstraction.
That isn't to say they're not similar - but it might be enough where a hack that works on one console won't work on the other without significant modification.


Well yeah, this is an easy way of assuring hw access even if the virtos ("CPU") locks up.. (it is :oops: )


ppietro wrote:Until Geohot posts his method we won't know for sure - his hack may or may not depend on a specific architecture spot in the phat.
l


Well he's got something that is for sure, all one needed to confirm that is the dump itself..(not the trick).

both slim and fat are rambus right?
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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby Efaustus9 » 24 Jan 2010, 22:39

ppietro wrote:
Another good question about this hardware/software hack is - "Which hardware did he hack?"



He mentioned in the blog post that he was using a ps3 that was donated to him about a year and a half ago for the very purpose of hacking it. The slim was released less then 6 moths ago which makes it seem like some variation of the phat was used. He also mentioned that he did not start his efforts until 5 weeks ago putting the hardware pre-slim but the work post-slim.
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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby sirgrinalot » 25 Jan 2010, 06:38

All things aside, the function names he "discoverd" have been well known for almost 2 years see here: http://wiki.ps2dev.org/ps3:hypervisor

And even if anything comes of this, every ps3 has a unique key, and any code not signed by sony will not run on your console unless you supposedly do all the steps he is doing. Which judging from all his extra hardware and spewn ps3 guts is something the average joe wouldn't attempt...

Finally if sony sees a modified system software on your console they will likely ban you from being able to do anything online.
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Re: PS3 Hacked

Postby oeboeroe » 25 Jan 2010, 13:26

sirgrinalot wrote:All things aside, the function names he "discoverd" have been well known for almost 2 years see here: http://wiki.ps2dev.org/ps3:hypervisor

And even if anything comes of this, every ps3 has a unique key, and any code not signed by sony will not run on your console unless you supposedly do all the steps he is doing. Which judging from all his extra hardware and spewn ps3 guts is something the average joe wouldn't attempt...

Finally if sony sees a modified system software on your console they will likely ban you from being able to do anything online.


Thank you for this information.

All one would need is to boot your own firmware... no need to corrupt the games market anymore..
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