YouTube, Flash and the PS3

YDL running on the Sony Playstation 3

Moderator: billb

YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby ppietro » 14 Mar 2010, 09:12

We get asked this so many times, that it's time for a sticky. :D

Q: How can I run Adobe Flash on Yellow Dog Linux to view YouTube?

A: You can't

Q: Why not?

A: Adobe does not have a version of Flash for PowerPC Linuxes - like Yellow Dog.


This is an problem because the PS3's Cell processor has a PowerPC central core. Adobe does have a Linux version and a PowerPC version of Flash, but the Linux version is for Intel (x86) processors and the PowerPC version is for Mac OS X which, although Unix, is binary incompatible with Linux.

In addition, Adobe Flash is closed source, so we can't compile our own version for PowerPC Linux.

The only alternative is to reverse engineer Flash from Adobe's published specifications. There are two open source projects underway to do this - gnash and swfdec - but they are fairly buggy and slow - and currently they're broken with sites like YouTube, etc.

For YouTube viewing, I use a Firefox plugin called Download Helper that extracts the files from YouTube and saves them locally. Then I use Totem (built-in), VLC or mplayer to play them back. You'll need to have gstreamer-plugins-ugly and gstreamer-plugins-bad to make this work for Totem.

You can also connect stand-alone video applications like VLC and Mplayer directly to Firefox via a scripting add-in tool called Greasemonkey. There's a Greasemonkey script called "VLCTube" that appears to seamlessly interface VLC with YouTube. I've tried the Firefox+Greasemonkey+VLCTube setup to browse YouTube, and that works well - almost as well as if you were running Flash directly.

UPDATE: Lately, I've been using a new script called "YouTube Without Flash Auto". Firefox+Greasemonkey+YouTube Without Flash Auto seems to work well, and allows more precise fine tuning of video playback.

My Youtube without Flash Auto script settings are:
Default Quality: 5 Low
Player: VLC
Autoplay: On
Player Size: small
Video Url: get_video

Greasemonkey:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748/

VLCTube:
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/25318

YouTube Without Flash Auto:
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/50771

You'll need to add VLC to your system. An easy way to do this is by adding the extra repos listed here:
Howto: Install software (the easy way) YDL 6

Q: But wait - I can play Flash videos in the GameOS browser. That's PowerPC, right? Why can't I do this in Linux?

A: Sony purchased a custom version of Flash directly from Adobe for the GameOS, which they now maintain. This isn't for Linux - it's in the proprietary PS3 binary format. In addition, it's Sony closed source, so we can't convert it to Linux.


UPDATE: 14-Feb-2011 YouTube updated their site again. Unfortunately, that broke the YouTube Without Flash Auto and VLCTube Greasemonkey scripts. The authors of those scripts haven't released any updates in a while, so they're effectively a no-go right now. Download Helper still works great.

Also - some folks are reporting success with a program called MiniTube. This is a stand-alone application that lets you browse YouTube, etc. You can either build it from source, or obtain it via YUM from ps3bodega.

Cheers,
Paul
User avatar
ppietro
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4965
Joined: 13 Sep 2007, 22:18

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby otakusupreme » 18 Mar 2010, 01:53

has anyone ever contacted adobe and asked about this issue and whether or not they can build a flash player for ydl on the ps3?
otakusupreme
ydl addict
ydl addict
 
Posts: 115
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 08:23

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby ppietro » 18 Mar 2010, 06:01

otakusupreme wrote:has anyone ever contacted adobe and asked about this issue and whether or not they can build a flash player for ydl on the ps3?


Yes - they said "No". Apparently, they are not big fans of PowerPC. Apple twisted their arm (i.e. paid them a lot!) to do the Mac version, as did Sony for the Cell/PowerPC version.

Here's an article about the Sony situation:
http://psp.ign.com/articles/923/923933p1.html

Sony has actually been working on Flash 9 support for quite some time -- as far back as late last year. To get it running on the PS3, Sony ended up customizing a separate Flash implementation that was provided to it by Adobe.


YDL themselves petitioned Adobe back in 2006:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=289458

URGENT: Kai Staats on Flash Player 9 for YDL 5.0 — Adobe needs to hear from you NOW!
http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/pip ... 00129.html
Flash Player 9 Beta is now available for Linux, but not for the Power architecture. Fortunately, Adobe offers a 'feature request' form. I ask each and every one of you to submit your request for Flash for Yellow Dog Linux in order to showcase the strength of our user base with enthusiasm for the forthcoming Sony PlayStation 3 and Yellow Dog Linux.



No love.

Here's the main reference as to why they don't:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p= ... ostcount=7

This is the blog of the Adobe developer who makes the Linux releases. He is very hostile and angry towards anything but x86, unfortunately. :(
You can read lots of comments from his blog posts where people want powerpc and x86_64 flash for Linux, but the developers dismiss their comments, saying it is "too hard," and 64bit is not a viable platform right now, etc. Pretty sad.


Cheers,
Paul
User avatar
ppietro
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4965
Joined: 13 Sep 2007, 22:18

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby androvsky » 28 Mar 2010, 23:29

Well, if we're just talking about youtube, how about an HTML5 compliant browser with h.264 support and entering the HTML5 beta?
http://www.youtube.com/html5

I know Firefox doesn't support h.264 due to patent issues, but Chrome does. But apparently there's no Chrome port for the PPC architecture due to the fancy javascript engine. Konqueror doesn't appear to support h.264 natively, but possibly through an external plugin? If either Firefox or Konqueror supported using external apps for video tag handling, we'd be well on our way to a solution.
androvsky
ydl newbie
ydl newbie
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 22 Feb 2010, 22:34

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby ppietro » 29 Mar 2010, 00:42

androvsky wrote:If either Firefox or Konqueror supported using external apps for video tag handling, we'd be well on our way to a solution.


Unfortunately, with the current dev staff in Firefox, this won't happen:
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/arch ... dom_a.html

Mozilla should pick up and use H.264 codecs that are already installed on the user's system.
I've previously written about a variety of reasons this would be a bad idea, especially on Windows. Really there are two main issues:

  • Most users with Windows Vista and earlier do not have an H.264 codec installed. So for the majority of our users, this doesn't solve any problem.
  • It pushes the software freedom issues from the browser (where we have leverage to possibly change the codec situation) to the platform (where there is no such leverage). You still can't have a completely free software Web client stack.


But I could just download gst-plugins-ugly and I'd be OK.
That's a selfish attitude. Everyone should be able to browse the Web with a free software stack without having to jump through arcane hoops to download and install software (whose use is legally questionable).


Don't know about Konqueror, but I don't think Firefox will let their html5 engine ever support h.264

I wrote a ton about it here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7140&start=0

Cheers,
Paul
User avatar
ppietro
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4965
Joined: 13 Sep 2007, 22:18

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby androvsky » 29 Mar 2010, 02:24

Well, I guess it's all academic now.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/03/ ... 21-update/

Linux is getting removed from all systems with the next update.
androvsky
ydl newbie
ydl newbie
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 22 Feb 2010, 22:34

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby ppietro » 29 Mar 2010, 03:02

androvsky wrote:Well, I guess it's all academic now.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/03/ ... 21-update/

Linux is getting removed from all systems with the next update.


Thanks for the heads up. I've made a general announcement.

Cheers,
Paul
User avatar
ppietro
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4965
Joined: 13 Sep 2007, 22:18

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby clem58 » 04 Aug 2010, 14:30

I have a feeling this is a big ask. But i'm gonna anyway, i've been lookin through the post you sent me reguards setting up utube vid's. Anyway is there any chance of a walk through, i think i could learn from it.

It just so happens my grand daughters father will be meeting the director of adobe while he is in san fransisco. He is going to attempt to find out if there's a work around for the linux i don't hold much hope for it but he'll ask anyway. :)
clem58
ydl lover
ydl lover
 
Posts: 69
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 23:13

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby ppietro » 04 Aug 2010, 18:50

clem58 wrote:It just so happens my grand daughters father will be meeting the director of adobe while he is in san fransisco. He is going to attempt to find out if there's a work around for the linux i don't hold much hope for it but he'll ask anyway. :)


Remember - they have a Linux version. The issue is that their Linux version is for Intel family processors only. We would need a PowerPC Linux version - and based on the fact that Apple & Sony have discontinued their PowerPC hardware, and there's no other PowerPC platform easily available to purchase, it might be a very tough sell.

If Sony hadn't discontinued OtherOS, you might have been able to at least approach the subject, but I'm guessing there just aren't the numbers available to make it worthwhile for Adobe to support it.

The other option would be to get Adobe to release an Open Source version of Flash - but I'm guessing that won't fly either. They've been very protective of their intellectual property.

As for the walkthrough, I'll let somebody else create that. I just don't have the time this week - sorry. The good news is that all the links you'll need are in my first post in this thread.

Cheers,
Paul
User avatar
ppietro
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4965
Joined: 13 Sep 2007, 22:18

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby billb » 04 Aug 2010, 18:55

ppietro wrote:If Sony hadn't discontinued OtherOS, you might have been able to at least approach the subject, but I'm guessing there just aren't the numbers available to make it worthwhile for Adobe to support it.

The other option would be to get Adobe to release an Open Source version of Flash - but I'm guessing that won't fly either. They've been very protective of their intellectual property.


Perhaps if there were a hostage situation ... :lol:
PS3 60GB [CECHA01], FW 3.15, YDL 6.2, Samsung T260HD @ 1920x1200
Powermac G4 1.25 GHz x2, 2 GB RAM, YDL 6.2
User avatar
billb
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5522
Joined: 24 May 2007, 20:30
Location: Eastern NC, USA

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby clem58 » 04 Aug 2010, 20:33

So long as we get the info, if needs must. :lol:
clem58
ydl lover
ydl lover
 
Posts: 69
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 23:13

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby billb » 10 Aug 2010, 15:37

Paul,

You may want to include info about the minitube YouTube desktop client -- it's easily installable from the ps3bodega repo now (just yum install minitube) and works very well. :D
PS3 60GB [CECHA01], FW 3.15, YDL 6.2, Samsung T260HD @ 1920x1200
Powermac G4 1.25 GHz x2, 2 GB RAM, YDL 6.2
User avatar
billb
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5522
Joined: 24 May 2007, 20:30
Location: Eastern NC, USA

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby clem58 » 10 Aug 2010, 16:53

Thankyou i'll let you know how i get on :)
clem58
ydl lover
ydl lover
 
Posts: 69
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 23:13

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby clem58 » 11 Aug 2010, 15:23

Couldn't get a work around for adobe flash, but my grand daughters pa was left with the impression that a way exists. sorry chaps :(
clem58
ydl lover
ydl lover
 
Posts: 69
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 23:13

Re: YouTube, Flash and the PS3

Postby ppietro » 11 Aug 2010, 19:17

clem58 wrote:Couldn't get a work around for adobe flash, but my grand daughters pa was left with the impression that a way exists. sorry chaps :(


Can you elaborate a little more on this? You mean you couldn't get a work around for Adobe Flash from Adobe? (i.e. the meeting your grandaughter's father - son-in-law? - had with Adobe?)

If a way exists from Adobe, we'd love to hear their thinking. The only way workarounds that we know of are the ways I've listed above.

Or did you mean that you couldn't get the work-arounds we've listed above to work? We can help with that a little. :D

If he did have the meeting with Adobe, we'd love to hear more about how that went.

Cheers,
Paul
User avatar
ppietro
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4965
Joined: 13 Sep 2007, 22:18

Next

Return to Playstation 3

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests