OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

YDL running on the Sony Playstation 3

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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby sirgrinalot » 02 Apr 2010, 20:21

ppietro wrote:
sirgrinalot wrote:I noticed some people are still on 2.30 and using this same method to get online.


If only we could downgrade firmware. I miss the old Playstation3 logo. :D

Cheers,
Paul


I know right, the spidy font never hurt anyone :lol:
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby DemonDelight » 02 Apr 2010, 21:25

I just changed my DNS last night:

67.202.81.137

It really does work good, I just hope it will work for a long while longer. Hopefully a CFW will be released soon.
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby keefy » 02 Apr 2010, 21:35

LAtest firmwares chenged things for the worse example being usign the keyboard when on the browser before it was possible to input the text directly into the web page as we do on a normal PC but now we have to enter it into the special text box press X to insert it then press X on the "submit" button on the forum doing it this way pisses me off and makes editing posts a slow lprocess no longer can I tab to the next field to speed tjhngs up its horrid.

Why didnt peopel want to upgrade above 2.3? Whats bad bout the later versions?
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby Taellik » 02 Apr 2010, 23:36

Sony had pretty much settled YDL's future with the release of the "slim" with no Other OS option. No one needed a crystal ball or a ouiji board to see that the future was bleak.

There was no massive outcry from the masses, instead all that was heard was the ohhh and ahhhs of the case design, and not any outrage for the diminished capabilities. To think of this latest announcement to be a total blind-sided decision is a bit unrealistic and YDL users should not be so shocked.

Sony "tested the waters", heard no opposition, watched as everyone "drank the kool-aid" of the promise of indefinite future Other OS support for those poor unfortunates who cling to keep their phat PS3 and refuse to buy the slim PS3.

I see no need to "preserve" an outdated Linux distro by avoiding the firmware update, and will erase my phat PS3 since there is now no Sony support, and will be no Fixstars support past July 2010 ( T-minus 3 months and counting ).

The $300 Sony is cattle prodding you to spend to buy a slim PS3 would be better spent buying a netbook or nettop PC with Ubuntu linux with more timely support, more memory to use, reliable HMDI support, etc, etc, etc.

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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby jbob0124 » 02 Apr 2010, 23:53

ppietro wrote:
If only we could downgrade firmware. I miss the old Playstation3 logo. :D

Cheers,
Paul


Why can't we? If we are able to unpack the firmware and repack it, how come we can't trick the FW into thinking its an upgrade by editing the files?
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby sirgrinalot » 02 Apr 2010, 23:57

keefy wrote:keyboard when on the browser before it was possible to input the text directly into the web page


I noticed that as well, there is also a character limit to that box. Which has screwed me several times over.
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby bonedome » 02 Apr 2010, 23:59

Hello
just to confirm the changing of your dns to 67.202.81.137 does work (just downloaded some trailers), there's a pretty good howto video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAIlpz-F ... re=related I'm going to have to research dns to see if there is any security risk (google conficker worm dns) or if sony could somehow "block" that dns (one of the ways to defeat the conficker worm was to block thousands of dns's)

One of you guys pointed out these pages http://www.ps3-hacks.com/file/19 and http://www.ps3-hacks.com/file/16, what's most interesting is the number of downloads, I don't have a windows pc and don't use wine so won't be using that method and I'm guessing a lot of others won't, so you can add a few thousand more to that download number
geo underestimated sony, but I also think sony underestimated just how many people use linux on their ps3's or simply see the thin end of the firmware takeback wedge

Hopefully the gimps at sony will realise that shafting their customers is eventually going to hurt them in the wallet

keefy wrote:keyboard when on the browser before it was possible to input the text directly into the web page



I noticed that as well, there is also a character limit to that box. Which has screwed me several times over.
there was rumours of them putting firefox on a few months back on qj.net
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby ppietro » 03 Apr 2010, 00:15

keefy wrote:Why didnt peopel want to upgrade above 2.3? Whats bad bout the later versions?


I wrote something up about that here:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/t5/Play ... 31#M102669

Cheers,
Paul
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby DemonDelight » 03 Apr 2010, 01:06

sirgrinalot wrote:
keefy wrote:keyboard when on the browser before it was possible to input the text directly into the web page


I noticed that as well, there is also a character limit to that box. Which has screwed me several times over.



I thought that was just for non HD tvs? Or did they change that with a recent fw update after 3.0? I haven't used the browser for a while so I wouldn't know
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby keefy » 03 Apr 2010, 01:14

^^ I think it was 3.0 althiogh ?ia m not sure.

Another thing thats ALWAYS annoyed me is the date being infront of the time, I only need to know the date maybe once or twice a day but the time isconstantly changing, it makes more sense for the time to be infront of the date.

The larger fonts never bothered me as I sit along way away and can now read it better.
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby ppietro » 03 Apr 2010, 01:53

Taellik wrote:The $300 Sony is cattle prodding you to spend to buy a slim PS3 would be better spent buying a netbook or nettop PC with Ubuntu linux with more timely support, more memory to use, reliable HMDI support, etc, etc, etc.


I'd like to speak to this a little, if I may - i.e. Why are you so interested in running PS3 Linux when there is a whole world of x86 Linuxes available that are easier to use, etc.?

So - a bit of background.

I'm a software tester by trade. I spend a lot of time in operating systems as part of my day to day activities.

In my house, I currently have 4 hardware Unix/Linux boxes:
1. Sun Solaris Ultra-SPARC 1
2. PS2 Linux (PS2 dedicated to Linux - my low power webserver)
3. Dual boot computer - Win XP and Red Hat 8 (for cross-compiles to PS2 Linux)
4. Quad boot computer - Win XP, Fedora, SuSE and Solaris x86

In addition, I have a quad-core x86 machine at work where I have at least 11 virtual Linux boxes installed: Ubuntu, Debian, CentOS, Scientific Linux, Fedora 9, Fedora 10, Fedora 11, OpenSuSE, OpenSolaris, gNewSense and GNU Hurd.

Phew! That's a lot of Unix.

But - it's actually down from the amount I used when I worked in the Unix Test Lab at WRQ. Then, I also had IBM AIX, Digital TRU-64, HP's HP-UX, Sun Solaris, Silicon Graphics IRIX, and a plethora of Workstation Unixes from Sony, Casio, and NEC.

So - yeah - I love Unix. I love Windows, too. Heck - I just love computers. (and - I love lamp?)

One of the things that helps me keep myself interested in computers is running in environments where I don't necessarily feel comfortable. Game Console Linux is a great way for me to do this.

Currently, I run Linux on my Dreamcast (Hitachi SH4), PS2 (Emotion Engine - mostly mips), and PS3 (Cell - mostly PowerPC). Mostly, I run it on my PS3. The PS2 just runs as a low power apache webserver nowadays, and the Dreamcast was more of a proof of concept.

I learn a lot of things running these Linuxes. I started doing PS2 Linux builds of Mozilla - and later Firefox - very early on. I found a number of bugs in the early days of the project where programmers had just assumed x86 - their code was not truly portable. I think I even have a check-in or two in the original mozilla tree to support MIPS architectures. This was good for the overall future of Mozilla; when the time came to do ARM builds of Firefox for netbooks, the work I had done years ago insured the code could be ported.

Sure - running Linux on a game console isn't as easy as running it on a stand-alone computer. But - you learn a lot more about things this way. Low memory computing, working around limitations, a deeper understanding of what it takes to get a mouse and X Windows running - these are all things you learn on these kinds of systems.

As for why YDL? Well - I don't mind running Enterprise Linuxes at home. I deal with cutting edge systems at work all the time. When I get home - the last thing I want to do is what I do at work. That's why all of my home boxes are Win XP, instead of Vista or Win 7. Tried and true - that's what I'm looking for.

The inability of my YDL to run cutting edge software doesn't bother me - that's what I have all these Windows boxes for. Instead, I just wanted a comfortable Linux where I could quietly work on projects that interested me - Yellow Dog on the PS3 matched that to a tee. In addition, you could really get to the bottom of code - since it "just worked" on x86, that holds no interest for me. I want to see it break and then get it working.

I did mention I'm a software tester, right? :D

Also - I used Yellow Dog years ago at the Unix lab at WRQ. We had a Power Computing Macintosh Clone that we loaded an ancient version of Yellow Dog on. We also had an IBM Carolina series computer in the lab that we ran LinuxPPC on.

(Sadly, I believe that LinuxPPC ended when the main developer passed away. That left Yellow Dog as the only PPC torch bearer for a long time.)

So - yeah - I'm going to keep using my PS3 for Linux for a while. Currently, the DNS spoofing seems to be serving my PSN needs okay. I split my my time about 50/50 between GameOS and OtherOS; this will probably be my usage pattern for the near future.

As for future plans? I'll probably discontinue buying Sony games. I have an Xbox 360 - I'm expecting to roll that into rotation for my primary gaming platform going forwards. I'll probably buy a stand-alone Blu-ray player and transition the PS3 into a Linux box/PS2 upscaler. (Oddly enough - the usage that most folks claim nobody buys a PS3 for....)

Cheers,
Paul

P.S. Oddly enough - this is the third time I've written this post completely from scratch. I'm using Win XP + Google Chrome to post it. I had been using Win XP + IE 6, but every 10 minutes, the browser would go "back" one page, and dump all of my text. I'm guessing it was because I was hitting some keystroke that made the browser go back. Sheesh!
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby ppietro » 03 Apr 2010, 02:05

jbob0124 wrote:
ppietro wrote:
If only we could downgrade firmware. I miss the old Playstation3 logo. :D

Cheers,
Paul


Why can't we? If we are able to unpack the firmware and repack it, how come we can't trick the FW into thinking its an upgrade by editing the files?


It's the digital signature. Until recently, we had no way of encrypting the firmware with the right "key" for the PS3 to recognize it as valid.

Geohot may have a way of tricking an SPE into signing code - without actually knowing the key. This would allow custom firmware, whereas previously, this was impossible for a PS3.

Cheers,
Paul
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby sirgrinalot » 03 Apr 2010, 02:17

ppietro wrote:
keefy wrote:Why didnt peopel want to upgrade above 2.3? Whats bad bout the later versions?


I wrote something up about that here:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/t5/Play ... 31#M102669

Cheers,
Paul


Now that I read that, you reminded me of all the gripes I had about the newer firmwares, and now I look back and regret updating for those few added features.


DemonDelight wrote:
sirgrinalot wrote:
keefy wrote:keyboard when on the browser before it was possible to input the text directly into the web page


I noticed that as well, there is also a character limit to that box. Which has screwed me several times over.



I thought that was just for non HD tvs? Or did they change that with a recent fw update after 3.0? I haven't used the browser for a while so I wouldn't know


Well I am running it on an HD tv and it certainly does it. The browser constantly crashes after the recent 3.0 update, I use it all the time it crashes probably 5 times a day. And I must say, it crashed maybe 3 times TOTAL on firmware prior to 3.0
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby ohm » 03 Apr 2010, 04:46

ppietro wrote:
ohm wrote:Speaking of which, I kinda wonder what will be in the PS4. I doubt it will be a Power variant since to my knowledge, IBM is mostly designing server chips (IBM has never been able to manufacture low cost products)


Actually - IBM has a couple of different POWER divisions. The team that designed the PowerPC core for the Cell is still going full tilt, to the best of my knowledge. They are completely separate from the server team - they're the ones located in Austin, TX - the embedded division.


I used to work at IBM in Austin TX and know quite a lot about Power and PowerPC. Austin did many PowerPC designs including low power designs like 603 and other AIM (Apple, IBM, Motorola) designs (in the Somerset design facility). The Server designs came mostly from Rochester Minn (I worked in that group for a while too). As much as I dislike CISC machines, the X86 architecture is pretty much the only thing going at present and is the only architecture for which there is any semblance of competition. Also, in graphics the only interesting products are coming from Nvidia and ATI. I really doubt that Cell has a chance of competing with the offerings from Intel, AMD, Nvidia and ATI.

Of course, there is the question of the direction that console gaming is headed. Any feature that a Console can offer can be offered more easily in a PC. Certainly no console can hope to match the performance range availabel from a PC. The only real argument in favor of console gaming is that it is lower cost than PC gaming (a PS3 is cheaper than a high end graphics card). But in order for that to continue to be true the product cost of the console needs to be a lot less than that of a PC. With the advent of processors such as the Atom, the entry prices of PC's have and will continue to get progressively less but still the high performance will be getting higher (i7's in notebooks). It is inevitable that some processor company will offer a multi-core processor with an on die gaming-capable GPU. When that happens, an inexpensive PC would be completely competitive with an equivalently priced console. There would no longer be a price advantage over a console.

Granted that I haven't been at IBM for a while now (having gone on to bigger and better things) but I am quite skeptical that there is any processor design from IBM that really can match what Intel has especially at the price points that Intel can provide. I think that Sony will do what Apple did, use commodity parts to get costs down and profit margins up. I think that Apple had no real choice but to switch to X86 and I also think that Sony will have no choice either.

Now that the PS3 is no longer a computer and a game console, it has lost its value to me. I can easily build a better gaming machine that will be a computer and will run my favorite operating system. It might not be less expensive to do so but be it building PC's or baking pies, it is easy to beat the commercial suppliers and have fun doing it. :)
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Re: OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

Postby ohm » 03 Apr 2010, 05:13

ppietro wrote:
Taellik wrote:The $300 Sony is cattle prodding you to spend to buy a slim PS3 would be better spent buying a netbook or nettop PC with Ubuntu linux with more timely support, more memory to use, reliable HMDI support, etc, etc, etc.

I want to see it break and then get it working.

Me too, but as I see, it there is plenty of stuff to fix in Ubuntu, Fedora and Wine (especially).
As for future plans? I'll probably discontinue buying Sony games.

You got that right. There is only one PS3 game that I will really miss and that is Flower. But I have already stated my views on console gaming which is why our PS3 and all of its paraphernalia is going to Goodwill so that it can become a tax write-off.
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