OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

[Iguana]

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Sony-Geo ... 4789.shtml

[ppietro]

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Sony-Geohot-Settlement-Details-Revealed-Include-Restrictions-194789.shtml

Okay - so that specifies what Geohot has to do. How about the Sony end of the deal? Does anyone know their terms?

Cheers,
Paul

[aguilarojo]

... How about the Sony end of the deal? Does anyone know their terms?

Cheers,
Paul

Hi Paul, and other participants of this thread and Board!

In direct response to your question Ars Technica published an article quoting one of Geohot's lawyers regarding this topic. You can intuit Ars Technica's position on the matter by their portrayal of Geohot as The Hulk. My interpretation of their characterization is that Geohot was out of control. There is no way to know their intention of course; one can read nearly anything of any such sketch, cartoon or other graphical presentation. However, I always appreciated The Hulk character throughout it's existence in film, TV series, and comics; it was presented within the context of unexpected radiation exposure which was also intermixed and updated in the movies with the Dr. Banner character having also been exposed to child abuse. In my view, Ars Technica portrayal degrades The Hulk character.

The most relevant response to your query is provided as a link within that same article if you select the phrase: "are listed in detail". However you can access that page directly here. If you read the posted statement analytically it will be difficult to distinguish between the settlement and what Sony has published as the standard and common End User License; the difference of course are the penalties that Geohot must pay if he violates any aspect of the settlement. In other words, in my view, although Yasha Heidari portrays the settlement as a David v Goliath type of epic struggle -- the reality is that Sony not only did not blink but gained further powers and capabilities to enforce the End User License to it's advantage which means by default that consumer rights, as a principle, are weaker now than they were before.

This brings consumers to the rights they've always had. In short, if someone doesn't like the terms of the End User License when investigating a Product or Service -- before you purchase/lease it or having purchased/leased it reading the End User License after one brings it home -- return the Product or end the Service. Here's however the annoying point which few consumer rights groups (or anyone else) have discussed analytically outside of Law Schools. Corporations -- not just Sony -- have the right to rewrite the End User License they publish regarding their Products/Services -- at any time. Although I believe that corporations should notify their consumers of any changes, I am not sure that such notification is a legal requirement.

In contrast to what Geohot did, at least some PS3 consumers are arguing with Sony within the legal system regarding the removal of the OtherOS option within the context of what the End User License actually means. The "good" point regarding the End User License is that it appears to be fundamentally stronger in principle in what the corporation should also abide by; this may help with the OtherOS class-action suit. That suit, in my view, is both more difficult and more interesting as the consumer voice and the corporation's responsibilities should approach better definition.

[ppietro]

Hiya!

I should have been clearer in my previous post. What I'm looking for are Sony's concessions. The fact they reached a settlement means that something was given to Geohot in exchange for not hacking Sony products, etc. It could be as simple as indemnification against all current and future lawsuits, or it could extend to monetary payments. I'm curious to find out what this might be.

The most relevant response to your query is provided as a link within that same article if you select the phrase: "are listed in detail". However you can access that page directly here.

As one of the folks on that link commented: "That's not the settlement, that's the injunction. We don't know what Hotz got in return for this. And since Hotz isn't legally allowed to tell details of the settlement, it means that we're getting a one sided view of how the settlement was reached. "

So - yeah - I think we only know the terms of the settlement and the agreements Geohot has to abide by. The larger question remains: what's the settlement?

Cheers,
Paul

P.S. As is painfully obvious, IANAL!

[aguilarojo]

Hiya!

I should have been clearer in my previous post. What I'm looking for are Sony's concessions. The fact they reached a settlement means that something was given to Geohot in exchange for not hacking Sony products, etc. It could be as simple as indemnification against all current and future lawsuits, or it could extend to monetary payments. I'm curious to find out what this might be.

I understand the drive - the need to know. However, Geohot nor the lawyer quoted by Ars Technica, nor any other of Geohot's lawyers -- are revealing that information. In fact, the posted agreement between Sony and Geohot is written in such a way that if anything becomes public beyond the published settlement then the agreement becomes moot and the whole thing gets hashed out in court, again. So dear Paul, don't hold your breath. You and many others may just have to wait until we all reach the "pearly gates" before we learn any details.

The most relevant response to your query is provided as a link within that same article if you select the phrase: "are listed in detail". However you can access that page directly here.

As one of the folks on that link commented: "That's not the settlement, that's the injunction. We don't know what Hotz got in return for this. And since Hotz isn't legally allowed to tell details of the settlement, it means that we're getting a one sided view of how the settlement was reached. "

So - yeah - I think we only know the terms of the settlement and the agreements Geohot has to abide by. The larger question remains: what's the settlement?

Cheers,
Paul

One doesn't have to be a lawyer to understand English grammar or syntax; one does have to be a lawyer to correctly analyze why a decision or order needs to be implemented in one way and not another. For the sake of this particular discussion I'll stick to exploring English grammar by referring to standard references which I hope most people will agree with. First, let's refer to the foremost English speakers on the planet -- The Brits! You can't get more English or precise in proper English usage than they are! Here is what one of their well known references, The Encyclopedia Brittanica, defines the word "injunction" to mean.

It's understandable to find that explanation "a little thick" but at least two things are clear regarding the posted settlement between Sony and Geohot via this definition:

• It is perpetual. This requires some thought. For as long as Geohot lives he must abide by this decision. Should Geohot experience something akin to the Tom Hanks character in The Green Mile and live beyond several generations into the future, Geohot must continue to obey this order.
  
  
• The acts ordered that are to be done are orders that Geohot must abide by and obey which prior to this explicit order Geohot did not agree to do. Keep in mind that it is preciously the fact that Geohot did not previously abide or obey the End User License at all that allowed him to post and share his hacks. He is no longer allowed or permitted to do any such thing nor is he permitted to advise anyone or provide guidelines nor any instructions regarding hacking anything regarding Sony's products under any capacity. Geohot must obey, period. Not obeying the order puts Geohot in the state of being in "contempt of court", as expressed in the Britannica. The language is fairly straightforward and clear.
  
  Geohot may have had contempt for the Sony End User License, however he must not reveal or demonstrate any contempt for the order.

There is another definition of "injunction" which approaches the American English style of imprecise language which also confuses many. However this looser definition or explanation regarding what an injunction is or means, may actually be clearer in the sense that it defines the injunction as a remedy. Here is the Wikipedia definition, which everyone is of course absolutely free to ignore.

Other corporations reviewing this case wish they could become as protected from Geohot as Sony has become. It's unclear whether they will be able to withstand Anonymous however.

P.S. As is painfully obvious, IANAL!

Paul, I had interpreted this as you publishing a Freudian assessment regarding a neurosis you suffer from! Thanks to the internet I discovered that you most likely meant that you "are not a lawyer" which is quite something really. Or were you really confessing a Neurosis?

Confused.

[STEFANOVIC]

Interesting indeed this 'deal' as ill informally call it.

http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/search?q=a+new+topic
This was a good little read, and now that the Geohot conflict is over it was good to see his views on some early aspects. Reading this has made me think again about what actually started this whole thing. Not really sure though what to make of the whole hypervisor exploit, everyone knows it was no way near being practical or reliable, was either a total over reaction by Sony or a big cover up and scapegoat for something bigger. People can still use OtherOS on non updated systems surely if it was that big of an issue they would be going Rambo on any rogue PS3. Bah I could go on, good reflection anyway.

Oh and anyone remember the days before 2.10? where was Geohot and the Sony po-po then?

[ppietro]

P.S. As is painfully obvious, IANAL!

Paul, I had interpreted this as you publishing a Freudian assessment regarding a neurosis you suffer from! Thanks to the internet I discovered that you most likely meant that you "are not a lawyer" which is quite something really. Or were you really confessing a Neurosis?

Confused.

Nope - I'm just warning folks that I Am Not A Lawyer.

Cheers,
Paul

[aguilarojo]

P.S. As is painfully obvious, IANAL!

Paul, I had interpreted this as you publishing a Freudian assessment regarding a neurosis you suffer from! Thanks to the internet I discovered that you most likely meant that you "are not a lawyer" which is quite something really. Or were you really confessing a Neurosis?

Confused.

Nope - I'm just warning folks that I Am Not A Lawyer.

Cheers,
Paul

Of course, of course! I did believe that! I sent a wink, yes????

[aguilarojo]

I believed that others in this thread would be interested in the latest events since Sony and Geohot buried the hatchet and make an agreement although for some there appears some fuzziness regarding what exactly was agreed and exactly what the precise settlement entailed. The fundamental piece of the settlement which matters in this particular posting is that Geohot stated that he is not associated with any group attacking Sony's network AND Sony recognizes and accepts this as fact.

On 4.26.2011 at 3:24pm Sony announced that their PS Network was broken by hackers creating an immense security failure such that all personal information as well as user's credit cards have been acquired by hackers. Sony is not sure exactly what information has been compromised but is warning all it's users that ALL information provided to it by users may have been stolen. You can read that story here.

On that same day, which is the same day of this posting to the YDL Board, at 6:37pm another article was published by Ars Technica which explores how damaged Sony absorbs from this breach. That article is here.

There are reasons perhaps to consider Sony evil, which recalls one of Google's early company policy of "Don't Be Evil", I'm sure Sony is reconsidering why they didn't care but we are all way past those days. Folks, please be sure either to purchase Lifelock if you don't know what that is and/or short on cash read about a review regarding the Lifelock service [link removed]. There exists a community based branch of Lifelock, which one can access [link removed]. Otherwise, if one is on one's own be sure to do the homework and research necessary to review all your financial transactions and cross-check that all your government and other IDs are clearly under your control and yours only.

Good Luck out there...

[Moderator edit: Links removed -- sounds too much like an advertisement. Thanks for the info though. billb]

[aguilarojo]

Moving along with the Sony saga I'd thought it would be informative that the most recent breach affected as many as 70 million users. This means 70 million persons whose credit data is loose in the wild for any to use, access and abuse. This could be someone within this community or someone who may visit occasionally; it is easy to minimize such things. If you consider how Sony is presenting this (see here) it is pretty clear that they are moving to explore compensating users because the FBI is investigating the breach. The Department of Homeland Security has also become involved in this case.

Update:
A recent article appearing in Nextgov (a publication dedicated to IT Management issues within the Federal Government) verifies that an additional 24 million Sony game accounts were hacked in addition to the previously hacked 77 million game accounts totaling just over 100 million game accounts (and associated private financial data) that has been hacked.

[Tobe]

Last weekend I've sent an email request to SONY about how to change my psn login data and password while staying on an older firmware to preserve the once promised YDL. So far they didn't answer...

Maybe THEY have given their databases on purpose to the hackers, so we are finally forced to make the update!

That company really SUXXX!!!

Cheers, Tobe

P. S. to the admins: You are deleting pretty much of the stuff (web addresses etc.) what other people are posting. Are you sure the United States (where this board is based) are still the land of the free? At least the freedom of speech seems to be totally down.

You should not be surprised if people are leaving this board for other forums. And I write this as somebody who once became victim of entire post deletion on this forum. But what am I doing here - after all YOU have the force to delete also this post.

[billb]

Last weekend I've sent an email request to SONY about how to change my psn login data and password while staying on an older firmware to preserve the once promised YDL. So far they didn't answer...

I don't see why you'd need your psn login info at all since you can't use psn on older firmware ... ? I know at one time it was technically possible to use a workaround and login on older FW, but don't know if that's still the case.

P. S. to the admins: You are deleting pretty much of the stuff (web addresses etc.) what other people are posting. Are you sure the United States (where this board is based) are still the land of the free? At least the freedom of speech seems to be totally down.

Where do you get this idea? We generally just delete spam and occasionally have to edit posts to remove certain links that never should have been posted in the first place.

You should not be surprised if people are leaving this board for other forums. And I write this as somebody who once became victim of entire post deletion on this forum. But what am I doing here - after all YOU have the force to delete also this post.

Certainly nobody comes here to read this type of drama -- I'll fix that immediately.

[Gogeden]

(Says like Rocky Balboa) YO ADRIAN! WE DID IT!

[link removed]
[moderator edit: I think we can allow the slashdot link, but let's not link directly to custom FW on this forum. It's hard to know where to draw the line sometimes -- billb]

https://games.slashdot.org/story/11/05/ ... dium=email

Aaaaannnnnnddddd just for effect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJmr5CKY73M

^___^

[Tobe]

I don't see why you'd need your psn login info at all since you can't use psn on older firmware ... ? I know at one time it was technically possible to use a workaround and login on older FW, but don't know if that's still the case.

Maybe I just want to avoid that the people who have stolen SONYs databases can use my login (on their newer firmwares) ...

Where do you get this idea? We generally just delete spam and occasionally have to edit posts to remove certain links that never should have been posted in the first place.

I don't want to go into this deeper, but when there once was an early post from one of the YDL developers that stated SONY would ban Other OS also from older PS3s, somebody deleted it (together with the whole thread). And when I started a new thread asking questions about that, somebody also deleted it. In fact there was everything deleted belonging to this issue. Period.

And what this man said - thanks to him - was nothing but the truth!

Cheers, Tobe

P. S.: Aaaaargh!!! And again, in the post above - a link seems to be removed!

[Gogeden]

P. S.: Aaaaargh!!! And again, in the post above - a link seems to be removed!

Just go to that Slashdot link