OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

[ppietro]

I used to work at IBM in Austin TX and know quite a lot about Power and PowerPC.

Did you know David Shippy? Or Chekib Akrout, Mickie Phipps, or Jim Kahle? Have you read the book? I would love to hear your experience at Austin compared against the book's point of view. (Possibly as a separate thread ) It paints a fairly Machiavellian picture of IBM Austin, actually, in a kind of "get ahead at all costs" way.

Specifically, they paint a very backhanded treatment of Apple. The probable cause for the x86 switch is specifically mentioned on page 154: "[After the removal of out-of-order processing, Akrout] worked hard to quickly find and present other acceptable options for Apple's future desktop and laptop lines. With a great deal of angry opposition, Apple finally agreed to accept a different core designed by IBM's Server group. In reality, they were at least temporarily backed into a corner and had no other choice, but I'm sure they immediately started pouring energy and money into scouting for a replacement solution."

The only real argument in favor of console gaming is that it is lower cost than PC gaming (a PS3 is cheaper than a high end graphics card).

That's not the only argument, though. The main argument is not really the price, although that helps. The main argument is consistency and ease of setup.

If I buy a PS3 game, I just stick the game into the drive and play. If I bring the game over to my friend's house, I stick the game into their drive and play. The experience is exactly the same between the both of us. There is no setup, no configuration. It just works.

Now, compare the PC experience. I have Windows XP, you have Windows 7. A game works great for you, needs massive driver updates for me, and runs at half the framerate, because my machine isn't the same as yours, and I can't run DirectX 10. So - the game developer is on the hook to somehow make the game playable on a range of platforms instead of just one target. Also - I have a cool controller, you have a mouse & keyboard. The game has to adjust to a range of input options, whereas with a game console, you know the input you're getting.

So, for the consumer, the game console presents ease of setup, common input options, finely tuned code because there's only one platform, cheaper hardware and developer-preferred game releases.

That isn't to say that a high-end PC can't smoke a 360 or PS3. Of course it can. But - for the average consumer, and the average game developer, the console is still a very attractive option.

Cheers,
Paul

[sirgrinalot]

I would like to add that not many games on the pc support splitscreen cooperative/versus on a single pc. It requires two pc's. Whereas many games on consoles support mulitple players, sometimes 4 or more.on a single unit.

[ppietro]

The $300 Sony is cattle prodding you to spend to buy a slim PS3 would be better spent buying a netbook or nettop PC with Ubuntu linux with more timely support, more memory to use, reliable HMDI support, etc, etc, etc.

I want to see it break and then get it working.

Me too, but as I see, it there is plenty of stuff to fix in Ubuntu, Fedora and Wine (especially).

Okay - here's where I admit a little something.

As a person helping x86 Linux, I am but a small fish in a very, very large ocean.

As a person helping PPC Linux, I am but a small fish - but in a very small pond.

I tend to like being a small fish in a small pond.

Cheers,
Paul

[aguilarojo]

Hi Everyone:

I'm a YDL user from way back -- so way back I bought and used Terra Soft's first offering which was then known as Champion Server which ran on an Apple G3 beige mini-tower. Apple via it's operating system back then, and yet even now, offers something more akin to a tease of what the hardware can do as opposed to allowing users to implement that power to their own purposes. Champion Server and later YDL throughout it's successive versions changed all that. TSS allowed anyone willing to do the work of mastering Linux something which can only be considered equivalent to the use of a set of laboratories and tools previously found only in the most advanced wings of various Science and Research Labs of select universities and if you knew what you were doing in Unix/Linux -- you could outdo what they were investigating by implementing an investigation which interested only yourself or anyone whom you allowed to use your system.

As for me, I began programming in the early 70's on a DEC VAX, then moved up to Stratus VOS, AIX, and by then I had learned to dream solutions in source and various equations.

More Mac users got wind of YDL especially as TSS had an exclusive contract with Apple to permit YDL to co-exist on Apple hardware. Apple was clear that although we were Mac users -- we were Mac users who wanted more power and access to do things our own way. Apple did not do to us, what Sony has done to you fellows. .

With a sense of camaraderie I want to share some information which could be useful in the long run.

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that they would move forward beyond the PS3 by exploring Toshiba's Cell TV. It is easy to miss the fact that merely to have acquire the thing means that someone has to put out $10,000+ first! Also one has to learn to read between the lines and see trends corporations exhibit via their business transactions and history. I mean that Toshiba and Sony work very closely together; Toshiba is aware not only of the OtherOS option but also of the technology developed to retard access to something as marvelous as the Cell. It is not possible to permanently deter those determined and curious enough to publish how they hacked a commercial product but strategies can be developed to maximize the challenge such that any effort is nearly always thwarted. It appears to me that this is the preferred direction of many corporations; they want users/consumers to play nice and follow the expectations corporations have for consumers. Linux, by it's nature, is way too wild for them. They can't stop Linux users, they can certainly frustrate them though.

The way forward beyond the PS3 is pretty much up to how each individual can address their respective financial challenges.

As a consequence of previous discussions regarding the Cell which I engaged upon with Paul and others elsewhere in the YDL Board in a different thread I came across two interesting pages which Fixstars produced which exist only in Japanese. Before I share those however, I request that interested technophiles who are interested in challenging engineering projects consider this article on the WinFast PxVC1100 which one can acquire for about $150 -$160. As always there are a plethora of useful information in the proper context including which PCI form factor one has to make sure one's system utilizes before one gets the board. Obvious, yes, but one would be surprised how many details are overlooked.

Now for the Japanese articles. Leadtek, offers a downloadable SDK which controls the WinFast PxVC1100. Note that where the Japanese is still present, these are graphic images which could not be translated by Google Translate. Here's the page to the Leadtek SDK.

There's a little surprise here, from Fixstars via their Japanese site an announcement which is not available on their English pages. Fixstars developed a box into which the WinFast PxVC1100 fits and is sold as a complete package, although one still needs to download the Leadtek SDK. While all this is good, the tough part is that Fixstars YDEL and YDEL for CUDA which can integrate with the Leadtek SDK only functions on x86 systems. In other words, the PowerPC versions of YDL cannot work with the Leadtek SDK. The Register's traditionally acerbic writing style is fully utilized in expressing Fixstar's current work.

[superryu]

There must be a way to get the OtherOS back...... This is impossible!! Now I can only think of a CFW. Looks like the cycle never ends.... people hack, companies counter the hack, people counter the counter hack.... it's just endless....

[superryu]

.... not to mention it makes the code dirtier..... it's just a waste of time and money!!!

[spykez]

Thanks for the winfast links, Derek.

Honestly however since this recent debacle, I find myself asking myself more and more if my time is better spent elsewhere. And really, when you think about how ubiquitous x86/nvdia cards are, the answer is clear, sadly.

I have not updated my ps3 firmware yet given some kind soul as noted has kindly provided an update bypass, but I have to admit, I am really not very motivated to keep on delving deeper into the cell. I'm probably just upset by all this

Maybe geohot and like will deliver, and we may have a fully unlocked PS3 that someone will build and maintain a linux for, but I will be honest, I doubt there will be enough momentum to make this happen within a realistic time frame. A late answer is as good as an incorrect one, sometimes.

Don't mean to sound so negative given the efforts of so many people here, Bill, Paul etc.. (thanks guys by the way!) But I'm just so disappointed.

[ohm]

I used to work at IBM in Austin TX and know quite a lot about Power and PowerPC.

Did you know David Shippy? Or Chekib Akrout, Mickie Phipps, or Jim Kahle? Have you read the book? I would love to hear your experience at Austin compared against the book's point of view. (Possibly as a separate thread ) It paints a fairly Machiavellian picture of IBM Austin, actually, in a kind of "get ahead at all costs" way.

I know Dave and Jim. Dave and I are several papers and patents. The environment at IBM was not one that I enjoyed and is one reason that I left. Where I work now is a sweat shop but we do get things done.

Specifically, they paint a very backhanded treatment of Apple. The probable cause for the x86 switch ... I'm sure they immediately started pouring energy and money into scouting for a replacement solution."

I am not surprised at all. But I think that it was inevitable that Apple would eventually swtich to X86 since IBM was not providing the cost, performance or the low power advantages. that Intel was providing. In my opinion, Apple is wise to have no brand loyalty. I am sure that you are aware that ARM Apple is using an in house processor in the IPad. Interestingly.

The only real argument in favor of console gaming is that it is lower cost than PC gaming (a PS3 is cheaper than a high end graphics card).

That's not the only argument, though. The main argument is not really the price, although that helps. The main argument is consistency and ease of setup.
If I buy a PS3 game, I just stick the game into the drive and play. If I bring the game over to my friend's house, I stick the game into their drive and play. The experience is exactly the same between the both of us. There is no setup, no configuration. It just works.Now, compare the PC experience. I have Windows XP, you have Windows 7.

Um, for the sake of completeness, I do not have W7 at home -- I have had only Linux since Win3.1. This aside, the consistent platform argument has merit yet even so, the experience is not the same IMO because the display and the sound system are not the same. And for me that makes the biggest difference. If not for that, I would rather play Bejeweled on my phone. I wont be happy until I have the equivalent of the Holodeck or a matrix interface jack.

A game works great for you, needs massive driver updates for me, and runs at half the framerate, because my machine isn't the same as yours, and I can't run DirectX 10.

What I like about PC's is that they allow choice. Each of us can chose a box that suits our circumstances. That ability to choose might mean that we can not share games. Granted this is in part due to the fact that the game developers always target the high end hardware. This is not necessary, nor is it a good business decision, a game can be good without the best hardware. But if you want all the eye candy, you have to the ritzy hardware at present at least. C'est la vie.

So - the game developer is on the hook to somehow make the game playable on a range of platforms instead of just one target.

This is the Job Description of Game Developer.

Also - I have a cool controller, you have a mouse & keyboard. The game has to adjust to a range of input options, whereas with a game console, you know the input you're getting.

You say "cool controller", I say "yucky controller" but I get the point. On the other hand, I can use a cool pair of Logitech G35 headphones. But when I plug them into my PS3, it only complains (incessantly) that it does not recognize the USB device.

I believe that PS4 will not have Cell for mostly the same reasons that Apple is not using 68000 or PowerPC; for better or worse x86 is in fact the standard and will be the least expensive CPU for some time to come.

I was bloody inconsiderate of Sony to dump Linux, had they any moral fortitude they would have fixed the flaws. I don't want to steal their damnable BD keys. I'll bet the GameOS source base is such a pig-sty that they are afraid to touch it.

[DemonDelight]

You got that right. There is only one PS3 game that I will really miss and that is Flower. But I have already stated my views on console gaming which is why our PS3 and all of its paraphernalia is going to Goodwill so that it can become a tax write-off.

If you already bought Flower you can still play it offline, it's not like xbox and it's whole "trial games" offline use

[DerXylakant]

does anybody already applied the exploit from geohot? I found a documentation here:

http://xorloser.com/?p=162#more-162

It should work with PS3 firmware 3.15 too, but unfortunately they used ubuntu not yellow dog. for this reason, the step

mv /usr/src/linux-ports-headers-2.6.25-2/ /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.25-2/

doesn't work, since there is no such directory in yellow dog distro. I guess the exploit has to be adopted to our distro, but i'm not able to do this. anybody else?

[ppietro]

does anybody already applied the exploit from geohot? I found a documentation here:

http://xorloser.com/?p=162#more-162

It should work with PS3 firmware 3.15 too, but unfortunately they used ubuntu not yellow dog. for this reason, the step

mv /usr/src/linux-ports-headers-2.6.25-2/ /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.25-2/

doesn't work, since there is no such directory in yellow dog distro. I guess the exploit has to be adopted to our distro, but i'm not able to do this. anybody else?

I have a feeling we shouldn't be discussing that here. I think we're okay discussing work-arounds for the PSN lockout, since that affects our ability to run Linux, but let's not turn this into an exploit forum.

Sorry - not trying to be a bad guy here - but I think we want to steer away from this subtopic. Let's keep it focused on Yellow Dog and issues affecting Linux, instead of how to bypass the hypervisor.

Cheers,
Paul

[alastor]

for better or worse x86 is in fact the standard and will be the least expensive CPU for some time to come.

Most important phrase - for some time to come - because ARM will beat x86 ( and AMD ) sooner or later. This will also help development of linux since windows runs on x86 arch. Why ? Power management is a way better on ARM then on Intel.

[Ecstasy]

I just wanna say that, I appreciate everything you guys have tought me in my journey through linux on my ps3. What happend isn't right in my personal opinion. There are a lot of really intelligent people here, and it seems to go unnoticed. I just wanna state, I read a lot here, just don't post much. I'm more of an observer. I am faithful something will turn out positive from this unfortunate situation. Other than the new DNS proxy. I probably won't be posting much due to the fact that my linux on my ps3 is optimal as I see it, thanks to you guys. I'll just be observering, learning from you guys, and applying your knowledge to what can make this unfortunate situation better. Thanks agian guys =)

[ppietro]

Most important phrase - for some time to come - because ARM will beat x86 ( and AMD ) sooner or later. This will also help development of linux since windows runs on x86 arch. Why ? Power management is a way better on ARM then on Intel.

You've just warmed my brother's heart. He's a chip designer at ARM.

Cheers,
Paul

[sirgrinalot]

I thought this article was very interesting.

http://www.ironstarmovement.com/profile ... update-321

Meowmmm writes; “Update 3.21 which Sony described as a security update
and removes installing another OS is a lie. Apparently Sony had
claimed that the 8th SPE was not used to increase production yields,
when in fact it was reserved for running the "Other OS". Update 3.21
by Sony is in fact an advanced strike by Sony to hide the fact that
the 8th SPE is needed to process the "Move Controller/s" without
sacrificing existing graphics and game play.

I thought we had access to all the spe's?