OtherOS removed in Firmware update 3.21

[ppietro]

I heard that using the DNS method it can be used to aquire your credit card details when buying stuff from the store, is this true?
I find it hard o believe.

Doubtful. That would only work if the guy's DNS entry had a "fake" PSN that he was directing you to. Since it doesn't, I don't think it can.

I'll have to think about that some more.

Cheers,
Paul

[aguilarojo]

I heard that using the DNS method it can be used to aquire your credit card details when buying stuff from the store, is this true?
I find it hard o believe.

Doubtful. That would only work if the guy's DNS entry had a "fake" PSN that he was directing you to. Since it doesn't, I don't think it can.

I'll have to think about that some more.

Cheers,
Paul

Hi Paul:

I usually visit Help Net Security and other similar sites to research technical problems. Help Net Security however, also produces a free and informative magazine which is downloadable and a decent resource.This particular link is a search I initiated which pulled up nearly everything regarding IP addresses which you can narrow down further. I thought this link could be a useful addition/option for your (and other techies) reference resources.

[sirgrinalot]

I heard that using the DNS method it can be used to aquire your credit card details when buying stuff from the store, is this true?
I find it hard o believe.

Doubtful. That would only work if the guy's DNS entry had a "fake" PSN that he was directing you to. Since it doesn't, I don't think it can.

I'll have to think about that some more.

Cheers,
Paul

This is where my specialty comes in. I am a network engineering student in the works. It isn't likely that your credit card information be transmited directly to that guys dns server. But there is a SMALL possibilty that your password and login id will be transmitted depending on the protocols the ps3 uses when you try to login through his dns server. He would then create a new profile on his ps3 using your password and id to login to the psn. His first step when inside your account would be to change the password to his likes. Then he would try to purchase psn items with wireshark running on a pc in his network to capture packets sent from his PS3 in hopes of one containing your encrypted credit card information (probably via ssl), for him to begin decryption. I can try everything on my pc using wireshark with the DNS server reroute program prrovided to us, if I can find time to get around to it.

[aguilarojo]

I heard that using the DNS method it can be used to aquire your credit card details when buying stuff from the store, is this true?
I find it hard o believe.

Doubtful. That would only work if the guy's DNS entry had a "fake" PSN that he was directing you to. Since it doesn't, I don't think it can.

I'll have to think about that some more.

Cheers,
Paul

This is where my specialty comes in. I am a network engineering student in the works. It isn't likely that your credit card information be transmited directly to that guys dns server. But there is a small possibilty that your password and login id will be transmitted depending on the protocols the ps3 uses when you try to login through his dns server. He would then create a new profile on his ps3 using your password and id to login to the psn. His first step when inside your account would be to change the password to his likes. Then he would try to purchase psn items with wireshark running on a pc in his network to capture packets sent from his PS3 in hopes of one containing your encrypted credit card information, for him to begin decryption I can try everything on my pc using wireshark with the DNS server reroute program prrovided to us, if I can find time to get around to it.

Excellent point!! Wireshark is an open source application which is available for Linux, including YDL. See here:

Code: Select all

$ sudo yum info "*wireshark*"
Password:
Loading "protectbase" plugin
Loading "installonlyn" plugin
PS3Bodega                 100% |=========================| 1.9 kB    00:00     
livna-stable              100% |=========================| 2.1 kB    00:00     
base                      100% |=========================| 1.1 kB    00:00     
updates                   100% |=========================|  951 B    00:00     
fedora-extras             100% |=========================| 1.1 kB    00:00     
dribble                   100% |=========================|  951 B    00:00     
Excluding Packages from Livna for Fedora Core 6 - ppc - Base
Finished
Excluding Packages from Fedora Extras
Finished
118 packages excluded due to repository protections
Available Packages
Name   : wireshark
Arch   : ppc
Version: 1.0.8
Release: 1.1
Size   : 12 M
Repo   : updates
Summary: Network traffic analyzer
Description:
Wireshark is a network traffic analyzer for Unix-ish operating systems.

This package lays base for libpcap, a packet capture and filtering
library, contains command-line utilities, contains plugins and
documentation for wireshark. A graphical user interface is packaged
separately to GTK+ package.

Name   : wireshark-gnome
Arch   : ppc
Version: 1.0.8
Release: 1.1
Size   : 726 k
Repo   : updates
Summary: Gnome desktop integration for wireshark and wireshark-usermode
Description:
Contains wireshark for Gnome 2 and desktop integration file

$


There is no time like the present to learn and implement strategies which maximize defense and ownership of one's system. Sony has the right to focus on what is theirs. Individuals likewise have the right to defend what they purchased and own. Linux has the annoying tendency however to be most functional to whomever implements it's tools the most intelligently. And that little fact has nearly always meant the intelligence in individuals, not corporations.

[gtabmx]

Hey everyone. I just signed up to discuss the real issue brought up in the subject line. I know most of us are just discussing workarounds right now, but I feel we have to discuss the real issue.

Effectively, Sony is forcing all current PS3 owners to choose between two features (OtherOS and PSN) that were both selling point for the console at the point of purchase.

Now, while the EULA does state that by updating our PS3s and using its online services, we agree to Sony's rules, but these companies keep forgetting that the EULA's are NOT above the law. I admit I am not an expert in consumer law, or any form of law, and nor do I have the time or patience to find and cite the exact line or phrasing that indicates that this behavior is illegal in the eyes of the law or other consumer Acts, but I know when something crosses the line. Sony might own its services and its firmwares, but surely there is a line that cannot be crossed.

What's next? Sony releases a new BluRay player next week and in order to boost sales, they release a PS3 update that prevents all PS3s from playing BluRays, so that more people have to go out and buy BluRay players? They can do that, and it would be the exact same situation as what we are facing now, just that many more people would be angry. This must be illegal and I intend on starting a class action lawsuit against Sony. I initially considered just bringing Sony to small claims court in hopes they don't show up so I can claim the cost of the console plus punitive damages, but I don't want this issue to get swept under the rug. Companies cannot keep doing this type of stuff and getting away with it. EULA's are not above law and there must be restrictions in what hardware/software companies can and cannot do to products that are fully owned by individual consumers.

I hope this message can be spread since I doubt I am the only one who is feeling this way. At least, some personal or community feedback would be nice.

Also, if there is anyone who lives in Canada that would like to join my case or at least discuss this issue on a more region specific level, I'd be happy to.

-Mike

[aguilarojo]

Hey everyone. I just signed up to discuss the real issue brought up in the subject line. I know most of us are just discussing workarounds right now, but I feel we have to discuss the real issue.

Effectively, Sony is forcing all current PS3 owners to choose between two features (OtherOS and PSN) that were both selling point for the console at the point of purchase.

Now, while the EULA does state that by updating our PS3s and using its online services, we agree to Sony's rules, but these companies keep forgetting that the EULA's are NOT above the law. I admit I am not an expert in consumer law, or any form of law, and nor do I have the time or patience to find and cite the exact line or phrasing that indicates that this behavior is illegal in the eyes of the law or other consumer Acts, but I know when something crosses the line. Sony might own its services and its firmwares, but surely there is a line that cannot be crossed.

What's next? Sony releases a new BluRay player next week and in order to boost sales, they release a PS3 update that prevents all PS3s from playing BluRays, so that more people have to go out and buy BluRay players? They can do that, and it would be the exact same situation as what we are facing now, just that many more people would be angry. This must be illegal and I intend on starting a class action lawsuit against Sony. I initially considered just bringing Sony to small claims court in hopes they don't show up so I can claim the cost of the console plus punitive damages, but I don't want this issue to get swept under the rug. Companies cannot keep doing this type of stuff and getting away with it. EULA's are not above law and there must be restrictions in what hardware/software companies can and cannot do to products that are fully owned by individual consumers.

I hope this message can be spread since I doubt I am the only one who is feeling this way. At least, some personal or community feedback would be nice.

Also, if there is anyone who lives in Canada that would like to join my case or at least discuss this issue on a more region specific level, I'd be happy to.

-Mike

As sympathetic to the emotions involved as I am unfortunately the laws within various nations are not nearly equivalent in any comparable way. There is not even agreement in the United Nations regarding what human rights are and how to protect them. Remember Rowanda?

My point is that there is little agreement regarding protections of consumers and what consumers can expect as valid services which is why the EULA of various corporations are written the way they are. Therefore if any consumer opens and utilizes a product they are agreeing to the EULA; if a consumer does not agree with the EULA then that consumer must return the product and s/he will have his money returned within weeks of the purchase of the product. If the product is online, then the consumer who doesn't agree may not use that service. That is the only way out of the EULA.

Can the EULA of a corporation be fought, maybe, but those who choose to do so must consider the time and finances necessary to contribute to such a fight. Is it worth it? It depends on what we are talking about, the PS3 is a game machine first and foremost. Yes, YDL allows it to be used as a computer, but time and technology has moved on and there are other computers designed for doing serious work, not games. There are people who want games only and that is why the market now exists so that desire is expressed nearly exclusively.

It's an expensive way to live to put so much power into time wasting activity but that's where the money is for corporations, not individuals. When the money runs out and people change their desire regarding what matters then the market demand will change into something else. In the meantime, although I appreciate the sentiments of those suffering a comparison of this terrible situation against what else is going on our planet is so commanding that it's pretty obvious that there are greater issues to put one's time and money into.

[gtabmx]

Hey everyone. I just signed up to discuss ... region specific level, I'd be happy to.

-Mike

As sympathetic to the emotions involved as I am unfortunately the laws within various nations are not nearly equivalent in any comparable way. There is not even agreement in the United Nations regarding what human rights are and how to protect them. Remember Rowanda?

My point is that there is little agreement regarding protections of consumers and what consumers can expect as valid services which is why the EULA of various corporations are written the way they are. Therefore if any consumer opens and utilizes a product they are agreeing to the EULA; if a consumer does not agree with the EULA then that consumer must return the product and s/he will have his money returned within weeks of the purchase of the product. If the product is online, then the consumer who doesn't agree may not use that service. That is the only way out of the EULA.

Can the EULA of a corporation be fought, maybe, but those who choose to do so must consider the time and finances necessary to contribute to such a fight. Is it worth it? It depends on what we are talking about, the PS3 is a game machine first and foremost. Yes, YDL allows it to be used as a computer, but time and technology has moved on and there are other computers designed for doing serious work, not games. There are people who want games only and that is why the market now exists so that desire is expressed nearly exclusively.

It's an expensive way to live to put so much power into time wasting activity but that's where the money is for corporations, not individuals. When the money runs out and people change their desire regarding what matters then the market demand will change into something else. In the meantime, although I appreciate the sentiments of those suffering a comparison of this terrible situation against what else is going on our planet is so commanding that it's pretty obvious that there are greater issues to put one's time and money into.

I understand what you mean entirely. To be honest, I can live without Linux on the PS3, but there is a fine line between that and being forced to. I just don't like the precedent that this sets for company-consumer relationships, especially in this day and age where most consumer products have some microprocessor running some firmware owned by a company and that comes with a EULA. I know Sony isn't stupid enough to do it, but there is theoretically nothing stopping them from preventing BluRay Disc Movie playback in the next update, or removing PS1 emulation. These features are a part of the console just as much as OtherOS was. Heck, if Sony was truly evil enough, when the PS4 comes around, they could release an update that requires users to pay a subscription fee just to play their offline PS3 games on the PS3. A line must be drawn somewhere, but at the rate things are going, our government is getting left behind and are too out of touch to protect us consumers.

I wish I enough experience with low level software and hardware to be able to do what Geohot is doing because trust me, this incident would motivate me to make sure Sony feels the bullet it shot itself in the foot with.

Let's hope the primary DNS bypass trick works long enough for Geohot and the likes to get us in control of our own product.

In the meantime, I made this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO5zmjbRujs

-Mike

[ppietro]

I heard that using the DNS method it can be used to aquire your credit card details when buying stuff from the store, is this true?
I find it hard o believe.

Doubtful. That would only work if the guy's DNS entry had a "fake" PSN that he was directing you to. Since it doesn't, I don't think it can.

I'll have to think about that some more.

So - here's what the guy hosting the DNS has to say:

Barney_Stinson wrote:
woa, Aaron you can see who's getting connected to your server?
awesome (and kinda disturbing :S )

I just have my webserver logs, which does tell me how many people are requesting the updatelist files and such.

But, for the record, the DNS server doesn't log requests, so I can't spy on what websites you're all visiting on your PS3s >.>

That being said, I did set this up on my home Linux server using bind and apache. If there's enough interest, I can share how I did it, but it's kind of dangerous running bind at home unless you really harden down your system.

Basically, I turn it on, authenticate, then turn it off.

UPDATE: Basically - I followed the procedure here:
http://rvlution.net/forums/viewtopic.ph ... rt=50#p643

minus the rewrite stuff. I just did the nested directories listed here:
http://rvlution.net/forums/viewtopic.ph ... rt=50#p639
and I only did US, since that's my PS3's region.

Cheers,
Paul

[dan_f14]

I think I mentioned the last time when the removal of the otheros was being considered that to bring a law suit against Sony for the removal of the otheros would be difficult. I for one would not advise it as it would cost a lot financially and in terms of time and for very little reward. If one was successful it would not change Sony's mind and force them to implement the otheros again as they would have looked at the legal ramifications before the decision to remove the otheros and drew up worst case scenarios of what it could potentially cost the company. I would argue the worst cost to Sony would be to its reputation rather than financial.

Anyway if one was successful what could they hope to achieve? Well I doubt you would get the money back for your console. If you was successful then perhaps you could get a percentage back from the feature you have lost. Now the ps3's main purpose is as a games console not as a pc that could run linux. The otheros was only an add on that was not well supported outside of these forums and was always seriously hampered from the beginning because of the restricted access to the RSX, etc. Don't get me wrong I really like the feature but it would be difficult to argue that running linux on a PS3 was the main reason it was bought, when you can buy a PC base unit or cheap laptop for the £350 I paid for my PS3 that would run linux far better and with more things natively supported such as flash and with more resources such as access to a graphics chip and more ram. So again it could be argued that the feature removed was not essential to the main purpose of the ps3 and was nothing more than an add on. Therefore if you tried to put a percentage on what the ps3 could do in terms of its purpose. then just as a rough figures you could say a ps3 is 60% games, 30% video/blu ray and 10% otheros. So perhaps I could get 10% of the console cost back. So that would be £35 if they valued my console of what I paid for it because I lost 10% of its feature. If they valued what it is worth now 3 years after I paid for it I would get even less. So the gain of approximately £35 wouldn't even be worth the time let alone the money it would cost to take Sony to court. Again I must point out that's if you win.

Trying to argue a win would be very difficult. I think its been pointed out that Sony reserve the right somewhere to change things in the EULA that we agree to. As the EULA is not a freely negotiated contract, its one that is already written that we cannot add or remove certain terms then there is the potential in the UK of claiming under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. I'm sure other countries have similar Acts of law. However, it would be difficult to claim that a term is unfair and as pointed out above the potential gain wouldn't be worth the time.

I hope that gives people an idea of what they would face if they tried to bring an action against Sony. Anyway the way I have taken it is to never buy Sony again. I have lost faith in them as a company. I am using the primary DNS workaround which is allowing me to still have the best of both worlds. I will eventually upgrade to the new firmware though as I bought my ps3 primarily as a games console. YDL has been a stopgap for me whilst my laptop (Sony as it happens) broke on me. When I get a new laptop I shall be dual booting it with a linux distro. Although I dabbled a bit with a SUSE distro on my old pc it was not until I installed YDL on my ps3 that I started to understand and learn more about Linux. I thank Paul, Bill and the rest of the community members for all the help they have given me and I look forward to installing linux on a platform that is not so restricted.

Cheers

Dan

[Moozie]

Guys,

I just followed the instructions posted by frost on page 7, and when doing the internet test connection, it says successful by the playstation store, and it even signs me in, but when I select the store, it says it is not available in my region/country

does this workaround still work? if so, what am I doing wrong?

thanks

[Seraphic]

Every time someone updates to 3.21 the value of our original 3.15 60GB CECHA systems goes up.

[ppietro]

Guys,

I just followed the instructions posted by frost on page 7, and when doing the internet test connection, it says successful by the playstation store, and it even signs me in, but when I select the store, it says it is not available in my region/country

does this workaround still work? if so, what am I doing wrong?

thanks

Yes - the work around still works. However - did you put your normal DNS as the secondary?

Cheers,
Paul

[Moozie]

it was there the first time, I think, but I have removed it, and I am still getting the same problem.

my secondary dns is 0.0.0.0 now, but previously I was using another one due to an error code with the playstation network/my ISP

[ppietro]

it was there the first time, I think, but I have removed it, and I am still getting the same problem.

my secondary dns is 0.0.0.0 now, but previously I was using another one due to an error code with the playstation network/my ISP

Your secondary DNS should not be 0.0.0.0 - it should be the standard DNS for your system. The other DNS server only provides lookup for the security check - you still have to have a normal DNS as the secondary for correct operation.

What region are you located in? There may be a missing directory on his server.

Cheers,
Paul

[CoBrA2168]

Instead of using the DNS method, why not just use the Proxy server method? (LG5 Tool)