Transition from Ubuntu

If you are new to YDL and have some more or less basic questions.

Transition from Ubuntu

Postby supadupadad1 » 16 Oct 2010, 01:05

Hi, i am new to YDL. I First installed it on my ps3 about a year ago and it was my first experience with Linux. I was intrigued by the amount of computer knowledge people had that used Linux and i thought i was goods with a computer. I was totally lost when it came to Linux. I was trying to figure things out when Sony forced people to abandon Linux on ps3. Since then i have vowed to learn Linux. I was turned of by yellow dog because i didn't understand Linux. I stumbled across Ubuntu and have been using it for about a year. I have become very familiar with how Linux works and know my way around Ubuntu very well. I think i would do fine with Debian also since it they are both the same "flavor" of Linux. I am not a pro with the bash shell but i know how to use the terminal and understand how to use it and most of the commands But am learning everyday something new. So now my questions. I know YDL uses the bash shell. but i see terms like yum and , and I don't understand what they mean. I am used to the Debian way of doing things. I am used to typing sudo apt-get install and sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install. What kind of tips or information can anyone give me to make my transition to this "flavor" of Linux easier? I am not used to the package management system. Perhaps its just going to take some time experimenting as it did with Ubuntu. Thanks for any responses in advance.
Greg

ps. I have still have Ubuntu on the PS3, Does anyone know if YDL will run more efficiently? Does the ps3vram thing work with YDL as well? thanks
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Re: Transition from Ubuntu

Postby ppietro » 16 Oct 2010, 06:32

supadupadad1 wrote:I have become very familiar with how Linux works and know my way around Ubuntu very well. I think i would do fine with Debian also since it they are both the same "flavor" of Linux.


Yes - that is quite true. Ubuntu is basically Debian without the "use only open source" restrictions.

supadupadad1 wrote:I know YDL uses the bash shell. but i see terms like yum and , and I don't understand what they mean. I am used to the Debian way of doing things. I am used to typing sudo apt-get install and sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install. What kind of tips or information can anyone give me to make my transition to this "flavor" of Linux easier?


So - as you've noticed - there are distinct flavors to Linux. The four main flavors are Debian, Red Hat, Slackware and Gentoo.

Yellow Dog Linux is based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux, via the CentOS recompile. Red Hat Enterprise Linux - unlike most other Linuxes - is only available by purchase (i.e. you can't download it for free.) However - since the source code is open under the general public license (GPL), you could build it from scratch yourself. This is what the CentOS folks have done. YDL leverages this CentOS build procedure to generate their own build, specifically targeting PowerPC processors and Mac/PS3/IBM architectures.

Now - Red Hat comes in two flavors as well - Fedora and Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL). Fedora is designed to be free and cutting edge - like Ubuntu. RHEL is designed to be stable and use field-proven technologies. This means that RHEL and its derivatives like CentOS and YDL are about 3 years behind current Fedora (and Ubuntu) library distributions.

You can read more about this here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hat_en ... tributions

and a post I wrote here:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3684&p=16307#p16307

So - what this means is that, for the most part, you can't install newly pre-compiled binaries. They usually require newer libraries than YDL ships with. Instead, we use older versions of programs, or compile them directly from source.

Now - the good news is that, similar to Debian/Ubuntu, Red Hat based Linuxes have a package management system, and on-line software repositories. However, instead of apt-get, we use a program called YUM and instead of .deb packages, our format is called RPM.

They work very similarly - you can run a control panel called "Add/Remove Software" (aka pirut) that acts like the Synaptic Package Manager. We have a guide here on our forums to add 3rd party software repositories to the default YDL repos that let you access most modern software. This is important, since YDL, like Debian & Red Hat, doesn't allow non-GPL software - like MP3 players, MPEG video decoders, etc. - on their servers. Ubuntu includes this stuff by default since their parent company, Canonical, licenses it.

I wrote a little bit more about the 3rd party licensing here:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2715&p=10002#p10004

In addition, we don't use sudo. Instead, we normally use the su command in a terminal window to switch to super user (root) then close the terminal window when we're done. What this means to you is that you have to keep track of the root user password as well as your own - unlike sudo in Debian/Ubuntu, where you pretty much just need to know your own.

Luckily - if this bothers you too much, you can install sudo in YDL/Red Hat, then set up the appropriate sudoers groups.

supadupadad1 wrote:I have still have Ubuntu on the PS3, Does anyone know if YDL will run more efficiently? Does the ps3vram thing work with YDL as well? thanks


It probably doesn't run much more efficiently, to be honest. If you install YDL 6.2, you can use a feature called libfreevec, that replaces glibc with an AltiVec accelerated library. It's still being developed, but it can increase system speed a little. And - yes - YDL does use ps3vram as well.

I generally recommend that, unless you like experimenting with different Linuxes, you stick with the distro you're most familiar with. So - if you're used to Debian, stick with Ubuntu - if you're used to Red Hat, stick with YDL. Personally - that's the way I roll. I'm fairly comfortable with Debian - but I learned on Red Hat, and that's the distro I still prefer. I'm just the most comfortable there.

We do have some tips for improving performance in general. These tips will probably work with Ubuntu as well. billb has some good ideas here:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7728&p=40050#p40051

Cheers,
Paul
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Re: Transition from Ubuntu

Postby aguilarojo » 16 Oct 2010, 08:19

supadupadad1 wrote:Hi, i am new to YDL. I First installed it on my ps3 about a year ago and it was my first experience with Linux. I was intrigued by the amount of computer knowledge people had that used Linux and i thought i was goods with a computer. I was totally lost when it came to Linux. I was trying to figure things out when Sony forced people to abandon Linux on ps3. Since then i have vowed to learn Linux. I was turned of by yellow dog because i didn't understand Linux. I stumbled across Ubuntu and have been using it for about a year. I have become very familiar with how Linux works and know my way around Ubuntu very well. I think i would do fine with Debian also since it they are both the same "flavor" of Linux. I am not a pro with the bash shell but i know how to use the terminal and understand how to use it and most of the commands But am learning everyday something new. So now my questions. I know YDL uses the bash shell.


Hi Greg!! Welcome to our little directory of cyberheaven!! :D
Paul did a very nice job in explaining the layout of Linux. My additions are merely other ideas part of Linux history, which are also within the capabilities of YDL and other flavors of Linux, including the Debian family branch of Linux.

First, understand that Linux is a redesign of commercial Unix with the difference that Linux is optimized for smaller computers, which today also means home computers (PCs and Macs), servers, and smartphones (such as the Google's Android based technologies). This means that the commands you can learn to execute within Debian, YDL, etc. can be executed utilizing similar command syntax as you would execute those commands on any Linux or Unix system. Think about that a little because this also means that learning Linux well allows you the potential to learn the most important essential means of controlling all those various devices, and any other device which uses Unix/Linux, now or in the future! This shortlist also includes the iPhone, iPad, iTouch etc. because OS X - the operating system used in all their devices relies primarily on BSD Unix, which means that you have what is truly an "inside" understanding because of the time you invest in studying Linux (as simple as that understanding may be now - your learning will grow)!

Second, bash, is only one of several shells available within Linux. Although bash is used initially (bash is short for Bourne Shell, yep just like the CIA character in the movies but for more powerful) one can easily change from bash to other shells such as ksh, csh, ash and more. In fact, through yum you can even add more shells! The reason different shells exist is that different shells offer different features of security in allowing controls affecting users on your computer in controlling what you allow other users using your computer to see or use. Let's imagine you have a kid sister whom you are kind enough to allow her play games on your Linux system say Doom within YDL, but you don't want her to have access to print anything or web access -- you can do that by creating her user account (with a unique login password unique for her alone) and choosing which shell she will be allowed to use in that account. You can also set up her account to be available only for a certain amount of time, say half-an-hour producing a report which only you review regarding what work or game she used or anything else essential regarding programs used and record generated. You could also control what applications she can use and what networks she has access to.

This may make you her evil elder or worse younger brother, but this skill provides one task which professional Unix/Linux System Administrators do all the time as paid jobs doing real-world work.

These skills are not merely means of torturing an imaginary sibling, these are real skills useful in determining what will be allowed on any computer Linux/Unix resides on. The area of this kind of expertise is known as System Administration. You can acquire even more information by acquiring a text on Linux System Administration and read through it carefully learning and testing various skills ideas within whatever Linux you use!!

There is quite a bit regarding Linux which can be fiendishly complex, but in truth if we learn well in parts eventually more and more begins to appear more comprehensible.

So Greg, welcome along on this journey of learning, and enjoy the process of forging ahead in developing evermore refined skills!!

All the best...

One more thing, if you decide to move into our YDL universe this link regarding setting yum up properly will be useful:

http://www.yellowdog-board.com/viewtopi ... 017#p11364

Everything on the Earth has a purpose.
Every disease an herb to cure it.
And every person has a mission.
This is the Indian Theory of Existence.
-- Morning Dove, Salish (1888-1936)
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Re: Transition from Ubuntu

Postby supadupadad1 » 16 Oct 2010, 16:55

Thanks guys for all that helpful info. I have already put debian on one of my desktop computers to try to get used to it before deciding to put YDL on my ps3. But If it's not really going to run much faster i will just stick with ubuntu and play around with debian. Knowing about adding the extra repositories will help, I have actually done allot of studying Linux. I am going to a technical school for electronics technology. I already had a term were they taught us basic programming and I excelled at it. I am great at math and I learned how to write and compile with linux. Although I don't know c I plan on teaching myself when i get into a lighter term. currently i am taking a basic computer networking course and all we work with is windows. My instructor knows i use linux so he let me use two computers so that i can have linux on one. I was experimenting with ubuntu server too.I don't understand why they are only teaching us windows when the majority of the feild we are going into runs linux! It seems crazy to me. My class is full or young kids that keep talking bout google os and apple. I tell them it is all came from unix. But my instructor I think scares them from linux because he always says it sucks because he had to try unix when he was in school. I have to give a speach this monday and teach the class something to do with electronics so i'm doing a linux install. I'm going to give some basic info on popular distros and show them how to make a disk, install, and mv, cp, ifconfig, and some other basic things. Then at the end i am going to show them the video i made of ubuntu on my ps3. I think it should blow these kids minds and hoping it turns them on to linux. I am looking forward to helping them learn as it should help me to learn faster also.
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Re: Transition from Ubuntu

Postby supadupadad1 » 16 Oct 2010, 17:11

oops, I confused myself in my last post i said i put debian on my desktop, what i meant was fedora. I put fedora on my desktop because i wanted to try out a different flavor of linux as well as get used to it for if i decide to put YDL on the ps3 again.
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Re: Transition from Ubuntu

Postby ppietro » 16 Oct 2010, 19:29

supadupadad1 wrote:oops, I confused myself in my last post i said i put debian on my desktop, what i meant was fedora. I put fedora on my desktop because i wanted to try out a different flavor of linux as well as get used to it for if i decide to put YDL on the ps3 again.


Actually - if you want a better simulation of YDL, you should try CentOS. Fedora, at this point, is three years ahead of YDL and has changed a few things - for example, I know that there's quite a difference in the Add/Remove Software tool UI.

It's not that Fedora and CentOS are that different - but you'll get a better feel for YDL with a distribution that's closer in spirit to it.

And - CentOS is free as well. :D

Cheers,
Paul
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Re: Transition from Ubuntu

Postby aguilarojo » 17 Oct 2010, 06:41

supadupadad1 wrote:...I don't understand why they are only teaching us windows when the majority of the feild we are going into runs linux! It seems crazy to me.


Professionals in the IT field must be familiar with all major operating systems and applications used within those systems, not only those they prefer to use. IT professionals must also be familiar with what users need or expect when using applications within those operating systems. This also means that IT professionals need to be skilled in correcting/programming or modifying the operating systems and applications to meet or surpass the expectations and needs of the user.


supadupadad1 wrote:My class is full or young kids that keep talking bout google os and apple. I tell them it is all came from unix. But my instructor I think scares them from linux because he always says it sucks because he had to try unix when he was in school.


Different operating systems excel at different functions although those functions may not be clearly obvious. A useful analogy is to consider different operating systems as though they were different martial art systems. I doubt your instructor or anyone else would consider Jui Jitsu, Tae Kwon Do, Hwrang Do, Ying Jow Pai or Hung Gar as systems which "suck". The only way to make any evaluation is to master these systems at a very high level and then from that level of experience make an assessment in comparison against say Wing Tsun. Only from the context of experience and understanding can assessments be made and strategies employed and applied within the context of one or another system or an entirely new one of one's own design. This assessment process also holds true for operating systems and associated technologies. Deep practice, experience and work in the real-world and academic world will clarify for you the optimal function or purpose of one or other operating system within a particular context.

Similarly a common paper clip or even chop sticks can be useful in their everyday common context, but with experience and sufficiently expanded and developed skills and understanding they can also function to save one's life. I'm simply stating what anyone should help you understand, it is even expressed in the ancient Tao Te Ching -- there is nothing so low that it has no value, function or usefulness. If you believe that there is such a thing then it is only of no value or useless to you because you do not see and therefore in that case indeed you can not make use of it. In that situation however you alone made that choice.

supadupadad1 wrote:I have to give a speach this monday and teach the class something to do with electronics so i'm doing a linux install. I'm going to give some basic info on popular distros and show them how to make a disk, install, and mv, cp, ifconfig, and some other basic things. ...


May you have every success in your work and effort.

All the best...

Everything on the Earth has a purpose.
Every disease an herb to cure it.
And every person has a mission.
This is the Indian Theory of Existence.
-- Morning Dove, Salish (1888-1936)
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